[TobyD]

Essentially, however this excessively long blog boils down to saying that Corbyns not so bad, he's not anti-Semitic, he's just careless about who he hangs out with. All of which may or may not be true, but I refer you to Will's comment that his main fear about him being in government is that he can barely handle being in opposition against a terrible government.

[Oldmanmatt]

Well...
This seems to sum up political debate in 2019:

https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/perspective

[Oldmanmatt]

Why will Labour lose this election?

Because of a slight majority of Brits, a group not defined by class or affluence.

Because, despite their anti-semitic credentials, they are not sufficiently anti-foreigner.

Ultimately, a majority of Brits are racist and nationalistic (as opposed to patriotic) and the party/ies who acknowledge that, will reap the votes, regardless of any other issue or economic benifit/loss to the voter’s own social group.

As long as the brown people are kept out.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/buoyant-boris-johnson-plays-migrant-card-8v2dk062d?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1573978595

[TobyD]

From Nick Cohen's article in the Observer today:
But what do you expect when a formerly great country finds that out of all its 66 million citizens it must choose a prime minister from a shortlist of Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn? Good government? Adequate government? Any kind of government worthy of the name?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/nov/16/only-those-who-worship-at-the-feet-of-the-party-leader-are-fit-to-stand-labour-tories?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Nigel]

From Nick Cohen's article in the Observer today:

Slightly more balanced than his usual nonsense to be fair, in one sense. He usually makes a generalised rip of both major parties, but includes a very obvious comparison of Corbyn to Trump / Stalin / Hitler. Seems to have missed that / had it edited out this week. Perhaps he'll include it in his blogs for the Spectator. Not checked news yet today, is there not an Andrew Rawnsley weekly identikit article you can link us to as well?

[Nigel]

On Corbyn's policies. I very much like the idea of increased public spending and trying to repair the rot that has set in over the last decade of Tory rule. Some of his policies are unaffordable and, when it comes to nationalisation, we need to see a clear case as to how the public will benefit and set this against the enormous amounts of compensation that will need to be paid out.

Citation needed. Very easy to chuck the "unaffordable" line around, as for some reason the past few governments have conned us into thinking we can't afford anything, despite being the 6th largest economy in the world with a relatively small population.

[petejh]

Another day another Guardian article link by Toby, Offwidth or OMM on a UKB politics thread.
Out of curiosity I counted how many in this thread:

Guardian links: 19
New Statesman: 3
Times: 2
Independent: 1
FT: 1
NY Times: 1

ECHO!
 

[mrjonathanr]

ECHO!

Since you requested it:
https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/liverpool-tranfer-news-injuries-live-17269463

Not sure if it’s quite the right thread tho

[tomtom]

It’s a fair point at first glance Pete - but the thread and forum is overwhelmingly remain (90%+ on the poll?) so maybe not entirely unexpected?

Reflecting on it a little (as you are with those figures Pete) it’s interesting how little positivity for ANY candidate or party is coming out - from what I can see. It’s a who’s the least worst option type of discussion. I was hoping there would be a bit more groundswell for Swinton - as she’s new - quite clear with her message - and not an old grey/blonde man....

Also noticed there’s very little election paraphernalia stuck up at the moment. Not seen any posters on houses/gardens or (😃) Tory billboards along field edges etc... guess it’s early in the campaign but struck by their abscence.

[petejh]

Not unexpected at all TT. But it is very dull, very predictable and very narrowly focused. UKB is 95% remain and I'd estimate 85% centre or left. This is mostly a thread for Guardian readers to discuss Guardian opinion-pieces.

Have also noticed the lack of energy and interest in the election. Can't say I'm surprised - I think more than usually people have made their minds up already.

[Oldmanmatt]

Wrong Pete.

I was reading the Times today, not got to the Groaner yet.

So, actually, that’s your bias showing, not ours.
You often seem unaware of your own cant.

[IanP]

Another day another Guardian article link by Toby, Offwidth or OMM on a UKB politics thread.
Out of curiosity I counted how many in this thread:

Guardian links: 19
New Statesman: 3
Times: 2
Independent: 1
FT: 1
NY Times: 1

ECHO!

Possibly to some extent but given the Times, FT and Telegraph are fully or mainly pay-walled and the Independent is a shadow of its former self in paper and online the Guardian is an obvious choice not just because of its middle class, left leaning bias.

[IanP]

Not unexpected at all TT. But it is very dull, very predictable and very narrowly focused. UKB is 95% remain and I'd estimate 85% centre or left. This is mostly a thread for Guardian readers to discuss Guardian opinion-pieces.

Have also noticed the lack of energy and interest in the election. Can't say I'm surprised - I think more than usually people have made their minds up already.

My lack of energy (but not interest) is more due to that fact that I feel I have the worst main parties and in particular the worst party leaders since I was too young to remember.  If you'd told me a few years ago that we'd have a worst choice for prime minister than Thatcher and Foot in the early 80s I wouldn't have believed you but here we are!

[tomtom]

Yup. I’d agree with that.

Media seem to be now waiting around for something to ‘ignite’ the campaign...

Maybe time to give milkshakes to TV audiences during debates. 👍

[teestub]

I think more than usually people have made their minds up already.

 I guess this time a lot of people who might have swayed between ‘New’ Labour LD and Green will be voting for whoever has the best chance against the Con in their area.

[tomtom]

Meanwhile - the BP’s tynemouth candidate lives in Freemantle Australia 😂

Sounds like he’s had quite a life though...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-party-election-tynemouth-australia-diver-ed-punchard-a9205191.html

[i.munro]

UKB is 95% remain and I'd estimate 85% centre or left.

Has anyone wondered why this is the case? There is nothing here selecting for income group or education.
An interest is bouldering and access to a computer seem to be all that's required - is it age-related or to do with the lack of bouldering in the SE?

[Oldmanmatt]

I think more than usually people have made their minds up already.

 I guess this time a lot of people who might have swayed between ‘New’ Labour LD and Green will be voting for whoever has the best chance against the Con in their area.

Yep.
Best least worst, is the lesser evil; so we must away with Occam’s cutty thing and swallow pride.
Let us all lament the passing of hope.

[teestub]

Meanwhile - the BP’s tynemouth candidate lives in Freemantle Australia 😂

Sounds like he’s had quite a life though...

Ed Punchard is a fucking cracking name, I’d find that hard to pass up on the ballot!

[tomtom]

Meanwhile - the BP’s tynemouth candidat e lives in Freemantle Australia 😂

Sounds like he’s had quite a life though...

Ed Punchard is a fucking cracking name, I’d find that hard to pass up on the ballot!

Former N Sea diver and Piper Alpha survivor too...

[petejh]

Mat I knew before I even pressed 'post' that you'd reply like that. While you may be reading the Times/FT/etc., you've mostly linked to the Guardian. Same for Toby and Offwidth. It's a boring echo chamber.

I'd much rather read someone post about reading something they instinctively disagreed with and that challenged their belief; than yet another post about a link to a Guardian opinion piece that aligns with the poster's view. Try the torygraph for a week or two!

[tomtom]

Mat I knew before I even pressed 'post' that you'd reply like that. While you may be reading the Times/FT/etc., you've mostly linked to the Guardian. Same for Toby and Offwidth. It's a boring echo chamber.

I'd much rather read someone post about reading something they instinctively disagreed with and that challenged their belief; than yet another post about a link to a Guardian opinion piece that aligns with the poster's view. Try the torygraph for a week or two!

It might also be because the Guardian is the only one of all those you’ve mentioned that isn’t paywalled....

[teestub]

I'd much rather read someone post about reading something they instinctively disagreed with and that challenged their belief; than yet another post about a link to a Guardian opinion piece that aligns with the poster's view. Try the torygraph for a week or two!

Which writers fulfil this for you at the telegraph? Any examples that aren’t paywalled? Or is the Tele more in line with your particular chamber of echoes and it’s the constant Graun articles that you instinctively disagree with?

I note the tele do a free trial but i am slightly concerned about forgetting and accidentally giving them some money. 

[Oldmanmatt]

As mentioned above.
It’s a paywall thing. I have the subscriptions or have wangled such, nefariously by pinching other people’s passwords.
I mentioned elsewhere that my routine is Beeb, Sky, G&T&T (with a dash of FT when possible). I usually read several versions of a story and if I want to share it, pick a free version. So, Guardian is likely.
 
I know it must be hard on you Pete, but you don’t need to feel lonely, there are plenty of people on your side of the left right divide (not that any such thing really exists, just a muddy, murky, orangish, mush that seeps into pink one way and a sort of greenish turquoise the other, long before achieving any real primary hue).
Frankly, my echo chamber is fucking near Navy sodding blue, amongst one group of friends and downright crimson amongst another. Makes for some interesting Facebook discussions. We all still get along and still get together every year (usually to get absolutely bladdered in somewhere like the Frog and Frigate) and still haven’t come to blows over it.
Anyway, as I said, I think it’s more a bias against the Guardian on your part than anything else.
I can read the same story in the Telegraph and then it’s Guardian counterpart and infer the actuality much better than if I only read one.

I still consistently find myself well to the left of one and right of the other.
I think that’s because I actually think about it (what ever it may be).

[TobyD]

As mentioned above.
It’s a paywall thing...
I still consistently find myself well to the left of one and right of the other.
I think that’s because I actually think about it (what ever it may be).

That's pretty much what I was going to say in reply as well Pete, I read the times more than anything else, to be honest though it's quite hard to find people presenting a coherent realistic argument for this Conservative government's vision for the future of the UK outside the EU, rather than just that Johnson is the best person to get brexit done really quickly.
Cohen's point is that both main parties have installed a front bench of loyal second rate no hopers. I'd be less bothered about leaving if I thought the people in charge were competent