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Climate Change (Read 4964 times)

gme

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#100 Re: Climate Change
October 12, 2019, 10:36:19 pm
On the BBC website earlier (I think) that 15% of the UK population take 70% of the flights...
Thatís why I think itís just set to increase. A minority of us, many included on here and definitely in the wider climbing/surfing/skiing world, take far to many and could/should reduce this. However there is a far greater number who donít fly at all but would love to and intend to in the future.  So flights will go up.

Kingy

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#101 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 08:24:34 am
While by no means a panacea, carbon capture technology will have some role to play in the future as part of a range of strategies:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_capture_and_storage

tomtom

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#102 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 10:13:39 am
Quote
However there is a far greater number who donít fly at all but would love to and intend to in the future.  So flights will go up.

True - esp the growing middle classes of China, India, Indonesia, African countries etc... where air travel is booming (eg Lion Air, Eithiopian)

petejh

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#103 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 12:12:08 pm
Good visualisation of the problem here:

I don't think brits stopping flying is going to move the needle! 



« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 12:23:08 pm by petejh »

dunnyg

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#104 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 12:57:05 pm
Cool visualisation. Would be good to see the same normalised for per person in each country.
The obvious arguement is, if the UK starts cutting emissions (via fewer flights etc.) , western europe may follow, rest of world (bar USA because I can see it happening).
I like the bar chart at the bottom. I feel that is the more enlightening data for me.

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#105 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 01:11:54 pm
How much of the figure for Chinese emissions includes manufacturing products which are actually consumed in Europe, North America and Japan? So effectively they are "our" emissions, just outsourced.

abarro81

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#106 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 01:27:10 pm
From a data point of view that graphic is terrible. What's wrong with a goddamn bar chart??

petejh

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#107 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 03:37:44 pm
Cool visualisation. Would be good to see the same normalised for per person in each country.




Interesting that Germany, among Euro nations, ranks so highly both in per person and overall emissions.
https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-germany-emissions/
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 03:44:38 pm by petejh »

petejh

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#108 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 03:50:38 pm
How much of the figure for Chinese emissions includes manufacturing products which are actually consumed in Europe, North America and Japan? So effectively they are "our" emissions, just outsourced.

Quote from: bloomberg
Other nations are looking at how Germany acts if only because many other big polluters have a bigger problem in making reductions. Germanyís economy is dominated by services that require less energy and produce less carbon than places tilted toward industry and manufacturing. China, which is the biggest source of greenhouse gas emissions, has a larger share of its economy tied to factories and therefore will find it harder to make reductions.


dunnyg

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#109 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 04:16:32 pm
Ask and ye shall receive, thanks! I wish I had the time to properly get into this data.
I was thinking about the correlation between energy usage and temperature the other day, friend of a colleague lives in florida, they have their aircon on most of the year, this must be pretty ruinous in terms of energy usage, which I guess is one of the main reasons Qatar and other Gulf countries have particularly big amounts of CO2.

Will it get to the point where under a future green by all means authoritarian regime, or the effect of market/political forces, people will be effectively banned from living in such  places because it is unjustifiably expensive (in terms of CO2) to do so? Would that be wrong or right?

I am suprisded by trinidad and tobago, but not sure why....

abarro81

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#110 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 04:30:18 pm
The good thing about places where high demand is based around cooling is that it's likely to be sunny there (good solar resource), and peak demand for cooling should be reasonably correlated with peak solar generation.. or at least close enough that storage can principally be in the region of hrs to smooth it out. Large scale solar in those regions is obscenely cheap in $/kWh (also, those govs have a habit of being loaded so can fund cheap acess to finance which is key for solar with its high upfront capital investment)

abarro81

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#111 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 04:40:01 pm
Linked to the above, I don't view energy generation as the main challenge, rather storage and grid questions - managing generation resources appropriately, allowing renewables to provide service to the grid that they're currently not allowed to etc...
Solar is already cheaper than most fossil fuels in many places. Lazard LCOE report is good place to get a rough idea of cost comparisons: https://www.lazard.com/perspective/levelized-cost-of-energy-and-levelized-cost-of-storage-2018/

In 50 yrs I'd bet we'll have shit loads of solar and bits of other stuff, loads of batteries and something else for longer term storage and turning solar into a form more useful elsewhere e.g. hydrogen. Question is, will the world be fucked by then...

gme

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#112 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 07:05:47 pm
This is what I meant by technology. My knowledge is pretty limited but it would appear that producing all our energy required for land based travel, heating, lighting and industrial purposes from renewables is possible, and not that far off (20-30 years).   However air travel maybe  more difficult.
This could be done without making our lives more restrictive.

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#113 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 07:31:38 pm
Hydrogen innit.

In the bigger scheme of things, we really ought not to be looking to batteries, with their rare earth metals (clues in the name)., but to Hydrogen, either in electricity producing fuel cells or burnt in jet engines for flights.

Obviously the issue with Hydrogen is that currently, its hugely energy intensive to crack water into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

However, folk are working on developing that process.

Interestingly, there's already a scheme in Sheffield where H is being produced by a system powered by a wind turbine.

http://www.itm-power.com/project/wind-hydrogen-development-platform

I've done a bit of googling and it seems California is starting down that road with about a 100 filling stations to date.

Saw a Sheffield City council van with a sticker 'Powered by Hydrogen' so thought where does it get its H from,  Turns out its from the wind powered filling station off the parkway.  Its the smaller turbine, i.e. the one that actually turns, that its connected to.  Its only the start, but might be the way things need to go.

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#114 Re: Climate Change
October 13, 2019, 09:24:33 pm
This is what I meant by technology. My knowledge is pretty limited but it would appear that producing all our energy required for land based travel, heating, lighting and industrial purposes from renewables is possible, and not that far off (20-30 years).   However air travel maybe  more difficult.
This could be done without making our lives more restrictive.
Apologies for the terse late night response to your post the other day.
There are plenty of techno solutions out there. My view though is that nobody should expect even rapid uptake and expansion of these to be sufficient for anything approaching business as usual to be maintained whilst avoiding severe climate change. I fear Jevons' paradox and human nature will ensure much of the gains achieved by technology will be done as offsetting I.e. a conscience salve to facilitate inaction, and hence wont make a huge difference outside of the offsetters heads.

SA Chris

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#115 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 10:07:57 am

I am suprisded by trinidad and tobago, but not sure why....

Large expatriate population, relatively wealthy (oil) lots of offices and hotels, horribly hot and sweaty a lot of the year?

Paul B

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#116 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 11:53:07 am
I think itís going to take serious technological strides before thereís a real replacement for face to face meetings for all but very minor interactions. So much is lost in translation when one canít see body language properly in small important meetings, Iím not surprised by business men flying all over the shop.  I assume in your example Andy, as is well reported at CERN and other large scientific organisations, as much good work is done in the evenings and lunch breaks as within the scheduled meetings.

I disagree. Perhaps when you're talking about meeting clients etc. for the first time (or nurturing that relationship)? The Consultant I previously worked for had a significant advantage over its competitors by being an early adopter/investor in online meetings and tech in general (the wonderful world of BIM). They've used it to make use of expertise overseas both in Eastern Europe and India (I'm told that the working conditions in these locations is incredibly good).

We also delivered a project for a Client in the NW using a team based in the south which I think I visited twice (?) by train in a 12M period. I've subsequently left but know they're making use of people in Glasgow, Leeds and Plymouth on current projects, all of which heavily rely on online meetings and communication where travel (by car) is not viewed positively (think lots of paperwork :coffee:). This obviously has other benefits too as it's easier to manage peaks and troughs in workload.

Likewise, my previous Client installed Skype and it was fantastic. OK, it took ~4 years to build trust with them but once that existed my need to visit their offices dwindled dramatically as queries (both ways) could be answered fairly conventionally via instant messaging. Some of the jobs in my current office (which are mostly construction sites based in London) use WhatsApp to send through site queries negating the need for site visits (it's also cheaper for them that way!).

On Fri I had a meeting with a NW England based supplier who's technical expert lives in Poland. It was a very technical subject (with fairly large £££ ramifications) but there was absolutely no need for anything further than the Skype call we used. It helped that their expert was, well an actual expert.

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#117 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 12:24:47 pm
Hydrogen innit.

In the bigger scheme of things, we really ought not to be looking to batteries, with their rare earth metals (clues in the name)., but to Hydrogen, either in electricity producing fuel cells or burnt in jet engines for flights.

Obviously the issue with Hydrogen is that currently, its hugely energy intensive to crack water into Hydrogen and Oxygen.

However, folk are working on developing that process.

Interestingly, there's already a scheme in Sheffield where H is being produced by a system powered by a wind turbine.

http://www.itm-power.com/project/wind-hydrogen-development-platform

I've done a bit of googling and it seems California is starting down that road with about a 100 filling stations to date.

Saw a Sheffield City council van with a sticker 'Powered by Hydrogen' so thought where does it get its H from,  Turns out its from the wind powered filling station off the parkway.  Its the smaller turbine, i.e. the one that actually turns, that its connected to.  Its only the start, but might be the way things need to go.

Orkney are already doing this for real in that BBC show I linked above...another link:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jan/20/orkney-northern-powerhouse-electricity-wind-waves-surplus-power-hydrogen-fuel-cell
« Last Edit: October 14, 2019, 12:35:01 pm by Offwidth »

gme

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#118 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 01:15:12 pm
I think itís going to take serious technological strides before thereís a real replacement for face to face meetings for all but very minor interactions. So much is lost in translation when one canít see body language properly in small important meetings, Iím not surprised by business men flying all over the shop.  I assume in your example Andy, as is well reported at CERN and other large scientific organisations, as much good work is done in the evenings and lunch breaks as within the scheduled meetings.

I disagree. Perhaps when you're talking about meeting clients etc. for the first time (or nurturing that relationship)? The Consultant I previously worked for had a significant advantage over its competitors by being an early adopter/investor in online meetings and tech in general (the wonderful world of BIM). They've used it to make use of expertise overseas both in Eastern Europe and India (I'm told that the working conditions in these locations is incredibly good).

We also delivered a project for a Client in the NW using a team based in the south which I think I visited twice (?) by train in a 12M period. I've subsequently left but know they're making use of people in Glasgow, Leeds and Plymouth on current projects, all of which heavily rely on online meetings and communication where travel (by car) is not viewed positively (think lots of paperwork :coffee:). This obviously has other benefits too as it's easier to manage peaks and troughs in workload.

Likewise, my previous Client installed Skype and it was fantastic. OK, it took ~4 years to build trust with them but once that existed my need to visit their offices dwindled dramatically as queries (both ways) could be answered fairly conventionally via instant messaging. Some of the jobs in my current office (which are mostly construction sites based in London) use WhatsApp to send through site queries negating the need for site visits (it's also cheaper for them that way!).

On Fri I had a meeting with a NW England based supplier who's technical expert lives in Poland. It was a very technical subject (with fairly large £££ ramifications) but there was absolutely no need for anything further than the Skype call we used. It helped that their expert was, well an actual expert.

I couldn't disagree more with this. We do exactly like you do and are regularly involved in Skype, video conferencing etc etc weekly. Its so impersonal, inefficient etc and takes so much longer to get things done in this manner that its often cheaper and definitely more productive just to send someone. And thats not even factoring in the development of relationships.
Ditto home working, i do it two days a week as it suits me but definitely better for the business for me to be in the office. Every time we have done it with people it hasn't worked. They have no connect with the rest of the team nor the business.

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#119 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 01:27:56 pm
I'd say that 95% of my interaction with our existing clients is by email or conference call (partly because most of them aren't in the uk). When someone from our team does meet them it's usually to disseminate beyond our usual contact in the company (e.g. to present to their board) or because we're going to be in the same place anyway (e.g. conference or exhibition).
New clients are different though - very unusual that the first piece of work we do for a client isn't delivered in person.

Note: my work is all information based, so it's not like being there is likely to be particularly useful beyond building relationships - either we deliver a report/presentation in person or send it to them and run through it on a screenshare on a call

Paul B

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#120 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 02:03:30 pm
I couldn't disagree more with this.

Interesting we're so at odds with this (I'm aware of where you work). Are you sure about inefficiency? For instance, every 3 months I go to an event in London (hosted by a University) which for some reason isn't broadcast (well it is, but only to one office in Scotland). It takes me pretty much the entire working day to get to the train station (Preston), get into London and back for ~3 hours of content and its incredibly hard to be productive when travelling. Its fine if I need to read something specific or have lot of emails to catch up on but where I am now the latter isn't a thing. That day isn't a good use of my time; I struggle to imagine how the online meetings I have with people could be improved to the point they 'bought back' that time.

Likewise, one of the main reasons for me changing employment was the ability to be more flexible with when and how I work, so like others 'in the office' (I'm now at a place employing ~5 people which is a significant change) I work from home a few days per week. Mostly, I'm far more productive at home than at the office (even when PeeWee drops around for a brew). Even at my previous place, I could sometimes manage to work from home and those days were incredibly productive (and I often worked far more than my hours etc.).

Nat is currently on the other end, as a Client using a large civil engineering Consultancy and she's definitely glad of the ability to Skype call rather than several discipline-experts (with heavy day rates) booking travel, time and expenses etc. in her direction (her budget simply couldn't cope). Likewise, she's a tad over-stretched and travel time is increasingly wasted time.

There was also a significant investment of time in training for the use of such facilities by my previous Employer.

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#121 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 02:15:00 pm
Skype (and increasingly WhatsApp video chat and FaceTime) is invaluable to me. Iíve a call this afternoon about a new grant idea - allows all three of us who are working at home to get together and thrash out some details.

The other thing (shock horror!) Iím using increasingly are.... PHONE CALLS..... seem to have been forgotten over the last decade, but a great way of getting stuff done. Especially with those who hide behind an email...

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#123 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 03:23:29 pm
This is fantastic, but sadly I don't see the top energy consuming countries following suit any time soon.

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#124 Re: Climate Change
October 14, 2019, 04:09:53 pm
Here is an interesting study on cutting edge carbon dioxide capture research. Seems like significant strides are being taken in this area. Might enable us to kill some of the CO2:

https://www.deccanherald.com/science-and-environment/new-material-efficiently-captures-carbon-dioxide-768035.html

"The new material developed by the researchers is a porous polymer -- PCP, also known as MOF or metal-organic framework -- consisting of zinc metal ions.

The researchers tested this material using X-ray structural analysis, and found that it can selectively capture only carbon dioxide molecules with ten times more efficiency than other PCPs.

When carbon dioxide molecules approach the structure, the researchers said that the molecule rotated and rearranged to trap the gas molecules.

This resulted in slight changes to the molecular channels within the PCP, allowing it to act as a sieve which can recognize molecules by their size and shape, the study noted.

The researchers said that the PCP is also recyclable with the efficiency of the trapping process not decreasing even after 10 reaction cycles."