[Bonjoy]

Now I've read the pdf it says to start as for 5, mentions a tight pocket. 

So I guess it'd be like this up to 28s, tight pocket for RH is 5cm left of where our LH starts. Big move for the the square cut hold you use your heel on, cross over for the thin crimp then into the same place we come straight into.

Yeah, it's just different beta on the same line. I wrote the deleted post when I though you guys had started up the next prob right (which is a fair bit further).
As a general point new on lime crags - they're always going to be a bit 'in flux' until any loose holds have departed, dirty holds been found/cleaned, and best beta worked out. As with Conies, don't be hugely surprised if original grades seem out on things.

[sdm]

Speaking of Conies Dale, does anyone know if any progress has been made on the access discussions?

Is advice still to stay away for now?

[tomtom]

As a general point new on lime crags - they're always going to be a bit 'in flux' until any loose holds have departed, dirty holds been found/cleaned, and best beta worked out. As with Conies, don't be hugely surprised if original grades seem out on things.

Grades in general seem quite tough. No giveaways at Lees Bottom. Though - I've never climbed there when its been completely dry (which might not help!)

[Yossarian]

What was your (abridged if you prefer) sport history when you launched this campaign? Did it start as something you quite fancied and then developed into a fixation? Or were you set on it as a lifetime tick before you started?

Good question, it’s made me think - thanks for the interest.

My sport climbing history started when sport climbing began in the late 80’s and progressed to doing Zoolook in 94 where I felt I reached an impasse as it fell after a major siege despite being a route that suited me ie technical and vert-ish.

I felt that the next level routes which I aspired to such as the Groove would be beyond me being that bit steeper with harder (for me) moves. For example I couldn’t dog the moves on Raindogs at the point.

Raindogs became my next big project which I eventually despatched in 99. With better strength at that point I was then able to do GBH as my first 8a+ in 03.

To consolidate on a harder short 8a+ I moved onto Overnite Sensation which also has the advantage of being one of the routes least prone to seepage. That eventually went down in 2007.

The Oak is two routes to the left of Overnite and the same length and was rated as a hard 8a+ or easy 8b so didn’t seem absurd as a project at that point.

Looking back a strategically better decision at that point instead of going on the Oak I should have gone on Predator as it would have been an 8b route that suited me.

As I went on the Oak I have stuck at it because I have never given up on a project. I am still motivated to push my limit, I still enjoy going on the route (the moves are amazing) and still love going to Malham.

I was unlucky not to tick the Oak in 2015. Whilst on the Oak over the last 12 years I have still progressed in other ways with my climbing. I did K3 in 2010 which remains my hardest redpoint and have improved my bouldering grade from 7A+ to 7Cish (West Side, eatswood Reverse and Bens Roof almost). I have also bagged my first (soft) 7c onsights on short euro trips.

Thanks - that’s really interesting. I guess there’s an inevitable lure to hard projects when you get to a certain level in sport climbing, and the more time you invest in something (particularly when you’re not in your 20s any more) the less you want to let go. But it also sounds like pushing on with hard bouldering has been something that you might’ve not done (with as much focus anyway) if you’d not had a project that required being at that level? I assume you’ve already got another route lined up for when you get the Oak ticked?

[shark]

Thanks - that’s really interesting. I guess there’s an inevitable lure to hard projects when you get to a certain level in sport climbing, and the more time you invest in something (particularly when you’re not in your 20s any more) the less you want to let go. But it also sounds like pushing on with hard bouldering has been something that you might’ve not done (with as much focus anyway) if you’d not had a project that required being at that level?

Hard projecting has always been my main love in climbing. Going from trying something inspiring that seems impossible to then doing the moves to completing a route is amazing.

I’m not sure about the more time you invest or that being an age thing. If I felt I wasn’t making some progress in an aspect of climbing that would help on the project then there wouldn’t be any point carrying on.

Yes its a positive that being a burly route that doesn’t suit me it’s provided the motivation and direction to address my  weaknesses (ie basically weakness - mainly fingers, back and trunk). I didn’t much like bouldering mainly because I sucked so badly at it. I’ve learnt to love it.

I assume you’ve already got another route lined up for when you get the Oak ticked?

The Oak is still very much an ‘if’ rather than a ‘when’ but thanks for the vote of confidence 

The route that most inspires me is Bat Route but even with the Oak ticked it seems a step and a half too far. I’d need to have another level limestone bouldering strength for the roof. I think with work I could do it in isolation but that’s a way off linking from ground having seen Paul Reeve’s struggles to get though it. I think the top section would be doable as it’s good rests between hard sections and my stamina recovery is OK. If I could get to short limestone Font 7C level it would be feasible but don’t think worth going on otherwise.

It would be more prudent to get on other stuff. I’m not sure. At 55 I’m running out of road. Mind you I felt like that at 35 and 45..

[Yossarian]

I’m not sure about the more time you invest or that being an age thing. If I felt I wasn’t making some progress in an aspect of climbing that would help on the project then there wouldn’t be any point carrying on.

I meant this more in the context of having a track record with longer projects, and the experience and mental maturity to deal with something long term. Also, you have a seasonal plan based around Malham being in condition.

I imagine it’s pretty rare for anyone in their teens / early 20s to have got to that stage. Much more tempting to think about the opportunities on month-long van trips to Spain.

[moose]

I’m not sure about the more time you invest or that being an age thing. If I felt I wan’t making some progress in an aspect of climbing that would help on the project then there wouldn’t be any point carrying on.

My own experience is that sieging was forced upon me by age / experience. 

I took up sport climbing around 8 years ago. Malham and Kilnsey are my local crags, and my tick list caught up to my ability a few years ago.  What are left are largely either routes with little appeal, or better routes that are in a fuzzy region between "possible with a siege and a feasible improvement in my ability", and "futile pipe-dream".  Enough time in one area and you either have to be prepared to siege, or start roaming further and further away in search of fresh challenges.  A choice between more time whittling away at the same moves at the same crags, or more time in the car.

[nai]

have improved my bouldering grade from 7A+ to 7Cish (West Side, eatswood Reverse and Bens Roof almost).

Sorry but point of order required surely, WSS and ER are 7B+, the latter being a 20+ move "problem" that probably deserves a route grade, and you haven't done Ben's, so really, truthfully, being honest with yourself, keeping it real, you've done one 7B+ and a couple of 7Bs.

Sorry

[cheque]

A choice between more time whittling away at the same moves at the same crags, or more time in the car.

Your knack for making rock climbing sound like no fun whatsoever never fails to amaze me.

[SA Chris]

you've done one 7B+ and a couple of 7Bs.

That's 7C ISH

[shark]

you've done one 7B+ and a couple of 7Bs.

That's 7C ISH

Quite. Thank you.

West Side Story is graded 7C in Peak Bouldering and rated hard 7B+ elsewhere. ER is 7C IMO being around 8a+ route grade. ET is 7B+ (Route 8a). With the addition of getting close on Bens I thought ”7Cish” was a fair description but clearly not in your view.

The main point I was making was that there was a step improvement in my Bouldering on what I was capable of when I started the Oak when the hardest problem I’d done was the starting moves of Overnite Sensation!

[moose]

A choice between more time whittling away at the same moves at the same crags, or more time in the car.

Your knack for making rock climbing sound like no fun whatsoever never fails to amaze me.

People keep making comments on these lines but it really is the opposite.  I just happen to like climbing very much for it's own sake, plain doing moves makes me happy.  Whether they are familiar but slightly untrustworthy friends (a tricksy siege project), or delightfully new and surprising (an on-sight / flash). Plus there is the appeal of time spent outside and getting to chat to people sharing the experience. 

Whilst ticking stuff is nice, I have come to realise that grades are a bit of a nonsense (especially when you are at the extremes of the morpho spectrum), and actual sendage is a relatively minor part of the fun.  So, whilst I might inadvertantly make climbing sound like a chore, it's more that my mojo is fed by processes not goals: I have learned to find a simple, contemplative enjoyment in the repetition of satisfyingly hard moves. 

[cheque]

Sorry Moose, I omitted the all-important smiley.  I know where you’re coming from, I just find your downbeat way of describing things entertaining!

[Fiend]

Also time in the car can be pretty fun depending which roads you're driving to the crag and what banging tunes you've got cranked up...

[petejh]

you've done one 7B+ and a couple of 7Bs.

That's 7C ISH

With the addition of getting close on Bens I thought ”7Cish” was a fair description but clearly not in your view.

   I was wondering if someone was going to call you out on this claim. Massaging the accounts a bit there Shark to make your internal investors more optimistic.

[shark]

  I was wondering if someone was going to call you out on this claim. Massaging the accounts a bit there Shark to make your internal investors more optimistic.

I'm toning it down. Following Basshaum/Moffatt self-deception in my mind I'm already an 8b climber and 7C boulderer and ain't none of you cunts gonna kick me in the aspirationals   

[SA Chris]

What, have you ticked Lanny Bassham? That puts you up another notch..

[moose]

Sorry Moose, I omitted the all-important smiley.  I know where you’re coming from, I just find your downbeat way of describing things entertaining!

Sorry, I am a bit sensitive (paranoid?) about the matter, I have previously been accused of being in an unhappy funk, when I have been simply been lost in thought contemplating the crossword, or just soaking up the sun! 

That said, this recent wet weather is testing my generally positive make-do attitude.  I have spent a few sessions recently on the Mandela Traverse at Kilnsey.  A soggy pocket thwarted any immediate RP ambitions but it seemed to be improving, so I persevered and concentrated on wiring the passages before and after it.  The moves are good, it's close to home, and sheltered from the rain, so otherwise a good project.  Now, judging from last weekend, and with the recent rain, I suspect the soggy pocket will be a water-spout until Spring.  Arse.   

[tomtom]

WSS is very different from most lime 7C’s i’ve tried/pulled on/looked at....

Jericho Road is a good tick of yours though - and I think it could easily be 7B+

[Will Hunt]

Now that somebody has started I feel that I can step in, which I hadn't done before because it just seemed like another dig at Shark (it's not a dig, more an uncomfortable truth).

Simon, you're not a 7Cish climber. I wouldn't have even said you were a 7Bish climber. As nai points out, WSS is 7B+ (I've never heard it described as 7C and I would suggest that if it ever has been 7C then that has been a mistake) and the eatswood traverses are more like routes. Nearly doing Ben's Roof is not doing Ben's Roof.

Furthermore, reading your power club entries it's pretty clear that you're not at anything like a 7Cish level. I have done a few 7Cs (the number depends on which grades you believe in) and one 7C+ but I'd only describe myself as a 7B climber - i.e. That grade which I feel I can fairly reliably do quickly/in a session. We can argue over who gets to call themselves a 7C/8A/whatever climber, but ultimately it doesn't really matter. However, I suspect that thinking of yourself as a 7C climber raises your expectations and leads to disappointment and frustration, which in turn puts you off doing the thing that is required for you to climb The Oak (bouldering at and beyond your limit).

To explain, let's look at some examples that spring to mind. The last couple of times you've been out with your sons you've been shut down and, rather than persevere or find something a little easier to work on, you've ditched the pads and gone soloing. That's fine, if you don't want to improve at bouldering.
Second example, the trip to Albarracin. A 7C climber might be right to get in a huff about not managing a load of 7As, but you're not a 7C climber. As a result of your unrealistic expectations of yourself you spent the last day of the trip sulking and not climbing.
Finally, people have been telling you for years what you need to do to improve and you've studiously avoided it. The recent board sequence that you came up with was miles off the mark for what a power session should look like. You can only climb The Oak after you've accepted that you are not currently strong enough to climb The Oak and then taken the steps to rectify that.

Sorry if that seems like hard truths. The only reason I say it is out of a will to see you tick your project and I say it with some affection.

[tomtom]

Before we go tearing apart Sharks record - Will - WSS is considered by many to be hard 7B+ and many say 7C.

Old grade was pre pebble loss.

[nai]

West Side Story is graded 7C in Peak Bouldering and rated hard 7B+ elsewhere. ER is 7C IMO being around 8a+ route grade. ET is 7B+ (Route 8a). With the addition of getting close on Bens I thought ”7Cish” was a fair description but clearly not in your view.

I come at it from the other direction, despite having done a 7C (which I expect to be downgraded next time around) and a number of problems in the 7B/+ range I reckon my grade to be 7Aish. 7A/+ is max grade I'd expect to be able to get most problems, above that I'm down to what suits.

Potato, Potato
 

The main point I was making was that there was a step improvement in my Bouldering on what I was capable of when I started the Oak when the hardest problem I’d done was the starting moves of Overnite Sensation!

Fair point, I'm often surprised at how far my bouldering has regressed after long periods of routing. And then surprised again by how much the extra oomph you develop bouldering helps when you return to sport climbing. I always resolve never to stop over summers, then you get sucked into a project and it's all too easy to let it go

[abarro81]

WSS is very different from most lime 7C’s i’ve tried/pulled on/looked at....

Jericho Road is a good tick of yours though - and I think it could easily be 7B+

I can't work out if that's a joke or not?  Moff is 7B+, Jericho is 7A+..

[tomtom]

Maybe my memory is hazy on the numbers Barrows. Been a long day.

[shark]

Simon, you're not a 7Cish climber. I wouldn't have even said you were a 7Bish climber

I never said I was a 7C climber except in jest. That would imply I had done multiple problems at the grade. What I said was I have "improved my bouldering grade from 7A+ to 7Cish (West Side, eatswood Reverse and Bens Roof almost)"

As nai points out, WSS is 7B+ (I've never heard it described as 7C and I would suggest that if it ever has been 7C then that has been a mistake)

It got harder after pebble loss as tomtom mentions. It gets 7C in Peak Bouldering and looking at it several have taken 7C on 8a.nu and voted 7C on UKC

However, I suspect that thinking of yourself as a 7C climber raises your expectations and leads to disappointment and frustration, which in turn puts you off doing the thing that is required for you to climb The Oak (bouldering at and beyond your limit).

I think it fairly obvious that saying "Following Basshaum/Moffatt self-deception in my mind I'm already an 8b climber and 7C boulderer and ain't none of you cunts gonna kick me in the aspirationals" was tongue in cheek

And anyway

Forgive me if this has already been discussed in Power Club. Have you looked at Jerry's Mastermind book? I've heard it suggested (and I'm sure you don't agree) that you have in the past had a few goes at the Oak where it could have happened but you shook yourself off the final moves through a lack of belief/over-arousal. The book could be a good investment.