[shark]

Local mental health charities could have a quick win by just dropping a nuke on Malham. Look at the lives its destroyed.

There was an article by a trad wad (Scottish I think) and his struggles with mental health. Unfortunately I can’t find a link. One of his top tips at the end of the article was to never climb at Malham.

[spidermonkey09]

[quote author=James Malloch link=topic=30230.msg589722#msg589722 date=1568114440

Not that I have any idea what the route is like or any real knowledge of trying something at my limit.... but could it be possible to rest the crimping arm a lot more than your other? I.e. almost sacrifice your other arm in order to up the chances of closing the crimp.

Maybe this wouldn’t be feasible to then go on and finish the rest of the route, but it’s something I’ve done occasionally when trying routes/circuits indoors. I don’t try hard enough outside to need it haha!!
[/quote]

Its a good thought! The crimp is on the left hand but unfortunately there are numerous others on the right hand, some of which are much smaller. I think the thing that makes the move different is that on every other crimp on the route I can statically set my fingers on the hold and crimp it up before weighting it. This one involves a slight deadpoint style move/lunge out left, so I catch the hold open/drag and then close it, which feels much harder. Its a long reach so without being a mutant on the right hand I couldn't do this move statically. I remember experimenting with a different sequence which removed this lunge earlier in the year but it felt hard; might take another look at this though!

[highrepute]

Not read properly for a while...did you do any tapering for a peak?

In my (limited) experience, if I keep falling off at the same place then that bit needs a little rethink. Could be a beta change, or perhaps on the sharp-end you're failing to execute your beta properly, is there a clip you could skip, is the rest before this section being used effectively (I've founding counting breaths useful for when mental stress is sending me off rather than climbing ability...have a think maybe.

Your last comment makes it sound like the effort you've put should make you entitled to the tick. Is that a fair assessment?

Other than that keep trying!

My attempts to engineer a peak in form didn't really work. I basically stopped training in favour of having multiple rest days prior to redpoint attempts. This worked in the sense that I consistently got through the bulge about 4 sessions in a row but didn't quite get over the line. I then had an extended break (one week) over the bank holiday weekend (when it was too hot to be on the route anyway) and did very little training in that time as was doing family stuff/tradding in the Lakes. First session back was too hot but then had 3 sessions in a row where I did not get through the bulge again. Finally got through it again last go of second day on and got high again despite being knackered. This week I didn't go to the crag midweek and trained twice. Had a RP Sunday and through bulge first go. Go figure!

I have reflected on the sequence. I changed the beta a few sessions back which has helped, but the central problem is that I am too pumped/fatigued to close a crimp regardless of the sequence I use to get there. Closing this crimp quickly and feeling strong on the hold is the key; if I do this on a link go I almost always go to the top. Possibly this has a negative implication in that if I don't feel strong on the hold immediately, perhaps subconsciously I start thinking I'm not going to do the next move which contributes to spitting me off. Clearly I either need to be less pumped on arrival or be able to do more moves when pumped, as I don't think there is an alternative to using this crimp.

It isn't unusual to be spat off here which is good to know. From my research, most people who do it as their first 8c (ie without experience of climbing at that level which gives them a better understanding of how to deal with the situation) fall off there quite a lot. At least 3 people I've spoken to have dropped it there around 6 times, which tallies with my experience!

Strangely I am usually quite calm entering this sequence, breathing normally and thinking quite clearly. I find the section immediately preceding this quite steady and have just left a rest which i am normally in for a few minutes. Something I have started considering is that its hard to access that state of 'controlled aggression' sometimes required on a redpoint when you have been climbing smoothly and precisely for quite a while previously, along with having just tried to relax in the rest. On a previous go up there when I was absolutely knackered I really bust a gut on the crimps, screaming like Ondra and generally trying hard, and I did get further than I thought I would. Perhaps trying to access this state of mind again might be a plan next time I get there; this was my girlfriends advice at any rate; 'get angry with it!'

I don't think I'm entitled to the tick, but I am definitely frustrated that the last hurdle is tripping me up so consistently. I think my problem is basically that I'm not fit enough to consistently link the headwall from the kneebar in a oner, even off the rope. If I was able to do this link at the end of every session success would be a formality. I am capable of doing the route with my current fitness levels but I do need the cards to fall my way; climb well, good conditions and a little slice of luck. If it doesn't happen then next year my plan would be to take the luck out of equation and simply get fitter!

Apologies for the long self indulgent ramble!

Thanks for the reply, I wouldn't apologise. Every post here is self indulgent for me.

Not that I can really comment on 8c redpoints, but your situation does remind me of many of my redpoint experiences. I'm sure you already know this but I'd just keep trying and if it doesn't go this year then some specific training over winter will hopefully help come spring.

Probably you just that go where you're either magically more fit for some reason or climb so efficiently that you don't get pumped.

[Will Hunt]

Don't beat yourself up too much, Jim. Worth bearing in mind that you've done something like 5 7c+'s, 2 8a's, an 8a+, an 8b, and now you're skipping a grade to 8c. It was never going to be easy. You'll get there but it'll take time and be all the sweeter for it. If you find that you run into a mental wall, don't be afraid to take a little time away from it and backfill that grade pyramid. You'll have fun, refresh, and learn a few tricks on the way. And there's no reason you can't keep your hand in on Bat Route while you do it.

Obviously you're not at that stage yet, but it could be worth bearing in mind if things don't happen this autumn/next spring.

[spidermonkey09]

Don't beat yourself up too much, Jim. Worth bearing in mind that you've done something like 5 7c+'s, 2 8a's, an 8a+, an 8b, and now you're skipping a grade to 8c. It was never going to be easy. You'll get there but it'll take time and be all the sweeter for it. If you find that you run into a mental wall, don't be afraid to take a little time away from it and backfill that grade pyramid. You'll have fun, refresh, and learn a few tricks on the way. And there's no reason you can't keep your hand in on Bat Route while you do it.

Obviously you're not at that stage yet, but it could be worth bearing in mind if things don't happen this autumn/next spring.

You're dead right, which is why I'm not beating myself up anymore really. I'm definitely overreaching at this stage and have done well to get this close. A load of mileage is the plan in Spain; I don't have a grade pyramid so much as a grade mobile phone tower currently! 

[tomtom]

Local mental health charities could have a quick win by just dropping a nuke on Malham. Look at the lives its destroyed.

A constant misting/sprinkler system would be far more cost effective....

[SA Chris]

Or a dog spray collar that squirts in your face any time you think about going there.

[Rob F]

"Yes I’ll still take him up till he does it but try and do Mescalito instead"

Wouldn't bother with that Mescalito- looks well grim...

[Rob F]

Rather amazingly it's right alongside New Dawn too, coincidence???

https://www.mountainproject.com/route/105996954/mescalito

(Any cheap shots directed towards Shark mentioning the grades of the above routes will be frowned upon!!!!!)

[petejh]

Having analysed it the current show stopper seems to be weakness on a left hand gaston on the top traverse. This may have something to do with the left shoulder / arm joint which has been slightly out of sorts most of the year and at times feels like it is starting to dislocate at odd moments.

Really? How many times this year - or in any year - have you climbed from the ground and got to that move on the top traverse?

I'd be surprised if you've got there more than a handful of times in many years, but happy to be wrong.

Looking through your posts for 2019 - and from memory every year has been the same theme - it seems that the recurring entry is 'failed to climb from the ground to the horn'. Clearly you can do from the horn to top. Just as clearly, the bouldering power to get from the ground to the horn is your weakest link. If you're consistently failing to do that move then your issue isn't anything to do with the top traverse...
(yet!)


2019:

Go3 Ground to getting fingers wrong in cramped sidepull which comprised set up throw but still managed to touch horn

Go3 Did the same but just touching rather than almost holding horn x2

Go4 tried throw to top but busted after doing throw

Go2 2nd bolt to greasing off the horn

Go3 From ground to almost getting horn

Go4 From ground got the horn but not the best and greased off

First redpoint go I climbed well and felt strong setting up for throw but having hurt my thumb wimped out of grabbing horn

First go climbed really well and got the horn but not in the ideal place - should have held it but didn’t.

Second go a bit hesitant and as about to do the lurch for the horn my right hand shot off the pinch

Third go my tips were screaming but managed to shut it out to get to touch the horn.

Go 1 pissed through start and unlucky not to hold horn.

Go 3 Ground to touching horn

Go 4 big effort required to do Ground to touching horn

Go 1 Ground to touching horn!

Go 2 Ground to going for cramped sidepull by 3rd bolt.

Go3 ground to nearly same point.

Go 4 pulled up to throw but was in bits and bailed

Go 1 and 2 Climbed slickly Ground to touching horn - second go more solid

Go 3 Back sore, tips screaming and tired but kept it together till shutdown on set up for throw.

Go 3. Rewarmed up on Consenting and to get used to new pair of whites. Went from second bolt on Oak but lost conviction going for horn but could have got it


That's 21 redpoints this year (I think, some may not be rps?) where you failed to do the move to the horn. Is it really that difficult to work out where you need to improve?

[Rob F]

Stylish Egyptian and I think it's in the bag...

[shark]

Having analysed it the current show stopper seems to be weakness on a left hand gaston on the top traverse. This may have something to do with the left shoulder / arm joint which has been slightly out of sorts most of the year and at times feels like it is starting to dislocate at odd moments.

Really? How many times this year - or in any year - have you climbed from the ground and got to that move on the top traverse?

I'd be surprised if you've got there more than a handful of times in many years, but happy to be wrong.

Looking through your posts for 2019 - and from memory every year has been the same theme - it seems that the recurring entry is 'failed to climb from the ground to the horn'. Clearly you can do from the horn to top. Just as clearly, the bouldering power to get from the ground to the horn is your weakest link. If you're consistently failing to do that move then your issue isn't anything to do with the top traverse...
(yet!)


2019:

Go3 Ground to getting fingers wrong in cramped sidepull which comprised set up throw but still managed to touch horn

Go3 Did the same but just touching rather than almost holding horn x2

Go4 tried throw to top but busted after doing throw

Go2 2nd bolt to greasing off the horn

Go3 From ground to almost getting horn

Go4 From ground got the horn but not the best and greased off

First redpoint go I climbed well and felt strong setting up for throw but having hurt my thumb wimped out of grabbing horn

First go climbed really well and got the horn but not in the ideal place - should have held it but didn’t.

Second go a bit hesitant and as about to do the lurch for the horn my right hand shot off the pinch

Third go my tips were screaming but managed to shut it out to get to touch the horn.

Go 1 pissed through start and unlucky not to hold horn.

Go 3 Ground to touching horn

Go 4 big effort required to do Ground to touching horn

Go 1 Ground to touching horn!

Go 2 Ground to going for cramped sidepull by 3rd bolt.

Go3 ground to nearly same point.

Go 4 pulled up to throw but was in bits and bailed

Go 1 and 2 Climbed slickly Ground to touching horn - second go more solid

Go 3 Back sore, tips screaming and tired but kept it together till shutdown on set up for throw.

Go 3. Rewarmed up on Consenting and to get used to new pair of whites. Went from second bolt on Oak but lost conviction going for horn but could have got it


That's 21 redpoints this year (I think, some may not be rps?) where you failed to do the move to the horn. Is it really that difficult to work out where you need to improve?

You seem to have omitted the go when I actually got to the top traverse earlier this year. It wasnt a good spring as I had three colds in succession and conditions were on/off. In Autumn 2015 I got to the top traverse 2x on 6 successive sessions IIRC.

Obviously the throw is the key.

That’s why I did the session where I went 2nd bolt to horn 4x as it meant doing the throw after 5 moves and that’s why I attempted to do setup and throw to top on the last session as whilst I mainly fell off each time because of weakness on the gaston at least I got to do the throw 6x.

Tomorrow I’ll find out whether this prep has set me up to do ground to horn and beyond or not.

[petejh]

Didn't omit by mistake, I only posted the go's where you failed at the horn.

Not trying to be an arse btw, I'll be genuinely pleased for you if/when you send it. Just wondering at some of your thought process.

[tommytwotone]

Back to unsolicited advice / enquiries...I'm kinda curious about the mental game here. With the caveat here that I know nothing about the route, hate UK limestone, haven't done anything remotely hard on bolts but what the hell.

Assuming that The Oak is at your limit, do you need (or at least do you think you need) to execute every move perfectly for success?

Probably a total generalisation on my part, but reading the breakdown above I have a suspicion that maybe you're trying to be too perfect about it

I'm assuming that if you've had attempts where you aren't catching holds 100% as you'd like etc, you're still trying to scrap through? Or is that not a viable plan?

To paraphrase everyones favourite annoying football pundit, could you be trying to "if anything Clive, climb that too well"?


 

[tomtom]

Climb dirty Shark!

[Fiend]

Assuming that The Oak is at beyond your limit, do you need (or at least do you think you need) to execute every move perfectly for success?

Possibly yes, I'm guessing.

[cheque]

If I’ve learnt anything from all the sport climbing siege write-ups I’ve read it’s that you finally do the route when you least expect it- just having a an optimistic but casual go from the floor, possibly in less-than-ideal conditions, usually at the end of the day, where you get through the crux and hold on ‘til the chains. Can’t be long now Shark, just keep turning up and keep (start?) believing that every go could be that one.

[Rob F]

Just think: tomorrow evening we could be logging on to ukb, watching footage of Shark smoothly and calmly powering his way up the oak, smashing it all the way to the belay...





























(in the bring out your dabs thread)

[Will Hunt]

I was going to post yesterday to say that Tommy would do it simply because he appeared to have fighting spirit (saying connies were decent when they costly weren't etc). If Shark is going to do the Oak he is going to have to fight to the chain. Here's to some redpoints from the floor and some pushing on even if things don't all go to plan.

[slab_happy]

led Softest HVS in the Peak* Tody's Wall which is my first HVS since my accident. 

Hey, I didn't realize it was the first post-accident! Congrats! And you still got on the block more stylishly than I did ...

[tomtom]

Enjoy your day Shark. Thats the most important thing

[Stu Littlefair]

have just left a rest which i am normally in for a few minutes.

Is this the rest at the birds nest or the higher undercuts? If the latter, i have a hunch you’re resting too long.

[spidermonkey09]

Is this the rest at the birds nest or the higher undercuts? If the latter, i have a hunch you’re resting too long.

Higher undercuts. Interesting; did you blast straight through after a cursory shake? Am I depleting myself in some way staying there longer even if it doesn't feel it?

[abarro81]

Something I have started considering is that its hard to access that state of 'controlled aggression' sometimes required on a redpoint when you have been climbing smoothly and precisely for quite a while previously, along with having just tried to relax in the rest.

Try some cheesy female-vocal euphoric trance before redpoint*- resty and floaty but also makes you want to run up a hill really fast. Always my go-to for long routes

*This may not work if you hate female-vocal euphoric trance 'cos you'll just be in a shit mood and punt move 2.


Stu is probably right - if you're fit enough to be spending a few minutes in that rest feeling chill then I'm surprised you're falling off after it.. sounds like you may not actually be getting as much back as you think you are? Worth a look/thought anyway..

[Duma]

Try some cheesy female-vocal euphoric trance before redpoint*- resty and floaty but also makes you want to run up a hill really fast. Always my go-to for long routes

*This may not work if you hate female-vocal euphoric trance 'cos you'll just be in a shit mood and punt move 2.

Jesus Christ Barrows, always knew you were a wrong 'un, what with the leg shaving and all, but this is a step too far!