[shark]

What’s the opinion on putting in a dogging bolt on an awkward to work crux of an existing route?

Don’t think anyone complained about the one on Bat Route.

Asking for a friend..

[jwi]

Not ok, imho.

[bigironhorse]

There may be a case for doing it on a few specific routes, but as a general rule not OK in my opinion. And to be honest I don't think I've ever tried a route where the crux was so awkward to work that this would be necessary.

[Ru]

Not on an existing route. Unless it's clearly very badly bolted.

[Will Hunt]

Come on, Shark. What route is it?

[Coops_13]

Come on, Shark. What route is it?

Ben's Roof?

[reeve]

Come on, Shark. What route is it?

Ben's Roof?

Blind date?


I think that there could be a case for it (I mean generally, not on blind date obvs) but it would be on a case by case basis and with a fairly high bar for what would constitute the right situation. Questions I would ask are:
1) are there any other options (such as clipping the bolt above and clipping yourself into the dead rope (tramlining some people call it)
2) is working that section currently so difficult as to mean that you almost need a grade in hand to be able to effectively redpoint the route
3) if this is being suggested as a solution, how have people coped before? Is the route as a whole that badly bolted?
4) Is it <i>really</i> necessary or just a bit more convenient? (obviously this is a value judgement, but included to bring this into sharper focus)

I think it would be rare for a route to fulfil these criteria. Unless it is really esoteric and badly bolted.

Oh and 5) is it possible to get past it by climbing faster?

[joel182]

1) are there any other options (such as clipping the bolt above and clipping yourself into the dead rope (tramlining some people call it)

Quality, would have never thought about doing that

[tomtom]

Come on, Shark. What route is it?

Ben's Roof?

Blind Date? Ha beaten to it by Reeve 😃👍

[shark]

Ok so generally against it. I’m agnostic. It’s not badly bolted for leading but a dogging bolt would be useful for working it. Nobody seemed agitated by the extra Bat Route bolt. I’m sure there are other examples of retro placed dogging bolts

It’s Moffatrocity fools

[Teaboy]

I don't have a problem if there is a genuine case for it. There's plenty of old bolt litter around the crags that someone could offset the extra bolt by tidying up a nearby route.

[shark]

I don't have a problem if there is a genuine case for it. There's plenty of old bolt litter around the crags that someone could offset the extra bolt by tidying up a nearby route.

Like it! Planners often stipulate that if you take a tree out that you plant a replacement. Yes tidying up karma is possible but I don’t think that ethically that is sound

[Doylo]

I put an extra bolt in Liquid Ambar on the crux. Was so hard to get past the crux section when digging up. There was an old bit of blue tat hanging from the bolt above so people could pull up it to get to next bolt. Then a sling when people have been trying it in recent years. Now there’s a tiny 12mm glue in in a decent place and no need to have old fucked tat hanging down getting in your way and blowing about. Each case different i reckon.

[36chambers]

Just post on facebook asking for likes if people agree with you and get on with it?


In all seriousness though, if you're too embarrassed (or whatever) to name the route, then it sounds like it doesn't really need it

[shark]

In all seriousness though, if you're too embarrassed (or whatever) to name the route, then it sounds like it doesn't really need it

Hey just asking for a friend. Surely it’s the principle that’s most important ;-)

[Kingy]

I put in a new bolt in Hajj on the crux as the old one was over a metre to the right of the move. There was no way of working the individual moves without climbing the whole crux sequence as the next bolt above was even further right. A case of bolting being done before the intricacies of the moves are known and completely understandable on the part of the bolter. Somebody has to put the bolts in first. Could be a case for using temporary bolts initially before the best clipping spots are known etc then slam in some more permanent ones, however more time consuming this way.

The same thing happened on Something for Nothing. A friend repositioned the crux bolt to make it clipplable from the rest instead of the laughable 'solution' of using gaffa tape to hold a long draw sideways into the rock to make it clippable. Last example an extra bolt was added to Kaabah in the middle of the crux for those who want to clip something and eschew the character building runout 

[shark]

I put an extra bolt in Liquid Ambar on the crux.

Classic Moffat route! Burn him

[shark]

So Ted - if we over drill the hole and promise to bang it home after(  if requested) and plug is that ok?

 

[Kingy]

I wouldn't over think things. If it needs doing, do it!

[shark]

That’s the thing though - a dogging bolt never ‘needs’ doing

[TobyD]

So Ted - if we over drill the hole and promise to bang it home after(  if requested) and plug is that ok?

 

I'd largely agree with Reeve on this,  in that its justifiable but if other options exist should be avoided; if would really depend on the route: what / where is it?!

[shark]

I'd largely agree with Reeve on this,  in that its justifiable but if other options exist should be avoided; if would really depend on the route: what / where is it?!

It’s an established sport route. It’s a dogging bolt so it isn’t necessary. Why should it matter which route it is or where - it’s the principle no?

[shark]

I think that there could be a case for it (I mean generally, not on blind date obvs) but it would be on a case by case basis and with a fairly high bar for what would constitute the right situation. Questions I would ask are:
1) are there any other options (such as clipping the bolt above and clipping yourself into the dead rope (tramlining some people call it)

No

2) is working that section currently so difficult as to mean that you almost need a grade in hand to be able to effectively redpoint the route

Maybe

3) if this is being suggested as a solution, how have people coped before? Is the route as a whole that badly bolted?

Generally climbed by people who can climb harder. It’s not badly bolted for leading though

4) Is it <i>really</i> necessary or just a bit more convenient? (obviously this is a value judgement, but included to bring this into sharper focus)

Convenient

Oh and 5) is it possible to get past it by climbing faster?

No

Can you guess the route yet?

[spidermonkey09]

Seems fine to me, I like the karmic balance idea of taking out a few old ones on adjacent routes. In time your 'dogging' bolt might become the preferred clip?

Intrigued by which route it is; give us a clue? Peak or Yorks?

[bigironhorse]

I'd largely agree with Reeve on this,  in that its justifiable but if other options exist should be avoided; if would really depend on the route: what / where is it?!

It’s an established sport route. It’s a dogging bolt so it isn’t necessary. Why should it matter which route it is or where - it’s the principle no?

I think which route is pretty important. I don't think general rules are as important as judging whether it is necessary on a case by case basis.