[tomtom]

Yes High repute. I have. The examples I gave above are real and made a big difference to my climbing (mainly in sport / bouldering / indoor). I went from a Shark to a Shark+.

I’m confused by the new SI units of mental climbing ability: Sharks. Does going from a shark to a shark+ mean you got better or worse Grimer?

[grimer]

The standard and the + have similar processors, but the + fails on harder routes.

[tommytwotone]

One observation I heard one good climber I used to climb with (Chris says hi etc) make about another good climber they had climbed with was that this person never 'tried', never pulled on to 'give it a go' - every attempt was an attempt to do it, not try it.

That kind of focus / intensity must be pretty hard to get going, as well as maintain but it clearly worked for this person.

[shark]

In that case I’ll aspire to shark(-)

If When I do the Oak I’ll change my user name

[SA Chris]

I took some deep breaths, went and soloed White Wand, then came back in an amped-but-calm state and dispatched.

After soloing WW, doing a BP must feel like a massive anticlimax.

[petejh]

In that case I’ll aspire to shark(-)

If When I do the Oak I’ll change my user name

Tiger Shark?

[36chambers]

Getting back to the OP, who I'm pretty sure is talking about bouldering not redpointing, an approach I've used a few times effectively is to go and solo something fairly hard/ bold (for you) to reset your brain a bit, from the try-hard-but-fail state to smoth-flow-failure-not-an-option.

I've actually had a similar experience to this, having spent the whole winter failing to do Underhand (my first project), on a warm summer's day I soloed about 4 routes on Low Man (my first soloing experience) and then decided to have a punt on Underhand and did it second go. I distinctly remember being in a novel headspace that day.

[Stu Littlefair]

This scenario has played out many times in my climbing... Three climbers are trying the same route/boulder. You're all of similar ability. You all get to the stage where the moves are worked and the route/problem will fall any go now. Jacob does it the next go. Hugh sends it around 10 goes later and Shark is still trying it 10 years later. What separates these three climbers is their mental game.

I think this mental game is deeply ingrained. Perhaps it's genetic or the sum result of all the events in our life before this point. Either way it's who we are.

I've thought about this a lot recently, as a result of climbing with Barrows, who is very much a Jacob to my Hugh. The mental game is the difference, but I don't think its nearly as untrainable as you suggest. Back in the 90s we used to think similarly about power and stamina; that it was just part of your make up and if you were naturally strong it wasn't worth trying to get fit. With hindsight that just reflected a naivety about how to train.

I think mental training for climbing is in the same place now. My current thinking is that much of the effort is mis-directed. We make mistakes when we lose focus. Consider making a cup of tea; a move that is technically possible for most of us. And yet, when we don't pay attention we sometimes spill the tea, or knock the cup over.

Lots of things in climbing make us lose focus, like being scared on a runout or getting performance anxiety near the end of a link. These things are distracting, and paying attention to them reduces the attention we are giving our movement. So we try to train so we don't get scared, or keep relaxed. That's OK I guess, but has very limited results in my experience. You will always get scared. When a project matters to you, you'll always be anxious about success.

Therefore, it is also key to train to remain focussed despite being scared or despite being anxious about a redpoint.

How to do this is a different kettle of fish of course. I think mindfulness - awful new wave clap-trap that it is - might offer some help.

[Blintflint]

Have you succeeded in getting nearer to being a Jacob? or have you always been and remained a Hugh?

[reeve]

"The cult of positive thinking, both in society and in sports psychology, is looking increasingly like it may be among several major diversions from the path of progress of sport and health in recent decades .... A determined performance with 100% effort can exist just as easily in any state of mind, positive or otherwise. The key point is to give that effort regardless of your state of mind. "


I haven't read this blog post since it was published, but I think it is worth distinguishing between mental training (which I really don't think is bollocks) and thinking positive (which, although some people might find helpful, I personally think is bollocks, or at least not the optimal way of fostering a good mental state).

Therefore, it is also key to train to remain focussed despite being scared or despite being anxious about a redpoint.

How to do this is a different kettle of fish of course. I think mindfulness - awful new wave clap-trap that it is - might offer some help.

Stu is on the money for me here, particularly with regard to doing what you want to do in spite of fear / anxiety / negative self-talk / unrealistically optimistic self-talk / expectations which are tied to your ego etc..

[Stu Littlefair]

Have you succeeded in getting nearer to being a Jacob? or have you always been and remained a Hugh?

I'm a Jacob when it doesn't matter, and a Hugh when it does. Still looking for the answer

[2 Tru]

Another factor or perspective worth considering is identity. In order for Shark or Hugh to send like Jacob they have to believe it is part of who they are and how they climb to send routes quickly, this is more than just positive attitude.

Hazel talks a lot about this in her mental training, the process of improving your mental game is not skin deep and involves a fundamental change in the way you see yourself and react to external stimuli.
 

[cheque]

Another factor or perspective worth considering is identity. In order for Shark or Hugh to send like Jacob they have to believe it is part of who they are and how they climb to send routes quickly, this is more than just positive attitude.

Hazel talks a lot about this in her mental training, the process of improving your mental game is not skin deep and involves a fundamental change in the way you see yourself and react to external stimuli.

  This is what I was talking about higher up the thread as what I took as the most important message of the Mastermind book.

[abarro81]

I've thought about this a lot recently, as a result of climbing with Barrows, who is very much a Jacob to my Hugh.

Not at the moment... lastmovitis on Sunday, and today I fell off matching the finishing hold trying powerband into putp trav... so sometimes I feel like I have the killer instinct and sometimes I don't. What I'm never quite sure of is whether runs of good form - when it feels like I have that instinct - are because I'm having a good run mentally or just because I'm on it physically. It's easier not to blow the last move when you've got that last 1% spare in the tank due to being light and having trained well etc.

We make mistakes when we lose focus. Consider making a cup of tea; a move that is technically possible for most of us. And yet, when we don't pay attention we sometimes spill the tea, or knock the cup over.

Lots of things in climbing make us lose focus, like being scared on a runout or getting performance anxiety near the end of a link. These things are distracting, and paying attention to them reduces the attention we are giving our movement. So we try to train so we don't get scared, or keep relaxed. That's OK I guess, but has very limited results in my experience. You will always get scared. When a project matters to you, you'll always be anxious about success.

Therefore, it is also key to train to remain focussed despite being scared or despite being anxious about a redpoint.

  The best times are when you're totally focused and nothing else comes into your mind, but those pieces of magic are unreliable and can be few and far between.

[duncan]

I was going to make the same points as reeve but he did it sooner and better.

Instead, here's a story. It's about trad. climbing anxiety rather than redpoint anxiety but the same basic principle applies I think.

Matt (Fiend) and I were at Pentire a few years ago to do Eroica and Black Magic. The routes were very important to us, long-held ambitions, close to our limit at the time, and conditions could have been better. To add to the anxiety, cheque was filming. When it came to Matt's turn, he was pretty unsure and nervous about starting out and verbalised this. We can both be a bit Eeyoreish and exhorting the other to think positively and 'send it duuuude' is just not going to work. I was also a bit conflicted as I'd been belayer when a friend had had a serious accident on the route. So all I said (about feeling anxious) was 'that would be normal...I'd feel the same'. This is straight out of the ACT playbook. Afterwards, Matt said it had been very helpful, making the point that accepting anxiety as a normal, healthy, emotion meant the anxiety was much less crippling to performance.

One of the better bits of Mastermind was about visualisation: this should be emotional as well as kinaesthetic and visual. So when you are mentally rehearsing the redpoint crux, you should include the intrusive thoughts like anxiety you get when close to success and do it anyway.

[Doylo]

Some success is the key. It’s easy to keep falling off if that’s all you ever do.

[36chambers]

I'm sure most of you have seen this, but just in case

[mrjonathanr]

Shame we don’t hear from Si Nadin, first winner of the World Cup, early onsighter of 8a+ and bold gritter extraordinaire.  Plenty of performance anxiety inducing scenarios to pick from.

Don’t suppose he’d have you as a ghost-writer, eh Grimer?

Although there’s a danger he might just say he didn’t think it was that hard.....

[user deactivated]

Hey up, just a quick one. Apologies to anyone offended by my posts, blog, interviews etc. It can mostly all be read as projections of my own internal world rather than anything directed at all individually. Capitalism, consumerism, sport, progress, performance and self identity. All interesting topics - ish. Anyway blint i pm’d you. Shark pm’d you to about deactivating my account and I wrote this more sensible piece related to the OP. Sorry I won’t be around here to be involved in any chat about it, but prob see some of you guys at the crag! Particularly Fiend who deserves due waddage all round for being a solid dude, great guy and actually quite a good climber!

The Mental ‘Game’ in climbing

To understand any psychological impact on ‘performance’ in any sport, I believe it is useful (if not essential) to first ‘understand’ the individual asking the question and the social / cultural context and environment in which the activity is taking place.

To apply any specific ‘techniques’ without this understanding is relying to some extent on the idea that all individuals will respond in similar ways to a set formula.

This is possible and some things may work for some people some of the time. However with a deeper understanding of yourself in relation to others, the environment and your activity (the ‘sport’) then I believe it’s possible to develop a less pressured, less anxious, more confident, more committed, and ultimately more enjoyable and connected experience.

Individual understanding: We are to a greater extent the product of our upbringing. The messages we received about ourselves, others and the world are instilled deeply at an emotional level from the moment we appear in the world and before. These deeper beliefs or unconscious material, inform our daily lives continually on both a physical and psychological internal state level (intra- relational) and also in an interactive level with others and the world (inter-personal relationships). To have a better knowledge of the beliefs that inform your internal and external worlds is to bring the unconscious into the ‘light’ and offer choice where before there may have felt non. This new understanding does not stop us repeating old patterns of course, just helps inform us about the possibility of change. Understanding your ‘internal working model’.

Socio-cultural understandings: all relationships internal (with ourselves) and externally (with other individuals or communities) are informed by more globally held beliefs and practices that may add to or take away from our own internal working models. Within our culture for a very long time the upmost value has been placed on ‘performance’. From the moment we are born and before we are presented with the idea of achieving ‘milestones’ and ourselves, communities and significant others in our lives make judgements based on this idea.  As we progress from smiling and gurgling to sitting and talking to walking and running, everything is noted and comparative judgements are made.
The 4 main areas in which value is placed are Financial performance, Physical performance, Appearance or ‘beauty’ and intellectual performance. Who is the fastest, who is the cleverest, who is the most attractive, who is the strongest, who has the most money, best job, who has made the grade.

To have a combined understanding of these things and how they interact with your psychological, emotional and physical state offers the potential to develop great insight and the possibility of personal growth and development. This in turn will be the thing that offers a possibility of changing your experience of the activity of rock climbing for the ‘better’ with the paradox that previously held beliefs about the importance of performance will at the least be challenged not to exist in the same way.
 

Thinking about yourself (in relation to your sport)

[Blintflint]

Another factor or perspective worth considering is identity. In order for Shark or Hugh to send like Jacob they have to believe it is part of who they are and how they climb to send routes quickly, this is more than just positive attitude.

Hazel talks a lot about this in her mental training, the process of improving your mental game is not skin deep and involves a fundamental change in the way you see yourself and react to external stimuli.

  This is what I was talking about higher up the thread as what I took as the most important message of the Mastermind book.

Yeah this is what Jerry said he was so good at in Revelations, made the difference to his comp climbing. Changing identity /getting more confidence in climbing I think also probably requires similar changes in other parts of life. A long term project. Reckon banking more successes as Doylo said should help with that.

[Nibile]

I found all the answers I needed with regards to the mental aspect of climbing, in Lanny Bassham's book. It worked for Jerry, and worked for me.
 

[moose]

Reckon banking more successes as Doylo said should help with that.

My own long-term RP tactic (well... not really a tactic, it's just who I am) is to simultaneously view the main objective of a session as just occupying a day until I feel justified in going home for telly and booze, yet also striving to pounce on any opportunity that comes along.  Regarding not RPing as not failing - a day outside at the crag is a positive.  On the other hand, if I get past that crux.... grim determination to push through to the chains. 

That said, I agree that such an "inshallah" attitude has it's limits.  After a while, I suffer from something possibly akin to Stockholm Symdrome.  I am bitter about "failure" but also find comfort in its unthinking routine: go to crag; fall off repeatedly; go home; go to crag....  I hate the sense of futility but am also soothed by how undemanding it is, not having to think about what to do next.  Finishing the project then becomes unlikely, as part of me wants to stay a prisoner of the route.  I lose my will to push through momentary fear and discomfort, as there will always be another opportunity, which might feel less unpleasant.

When I realise that is happening, I then try to make myself take a step back: adopt a short RP project, just to get used to having hard work rewarded by success, and reawaken my instinct to go through whatever it takes to scrap and bleed my way up a route.  Then, only come back to the project when I feel a genuine desire to actually finish it, rather than just occupy time in a pleasantly mindless fashion.

[abarro81]

view the main objective of a session as just occupying a day until I feel justified in going home for telly and booze

God your days at the crag sound depressing!  Conversely, I reckon rocking up feeling like a kid on Christmas morning is the best because being excited about trying hard on something I'm psyched for often makes me climb well, even if it also makes me nervous.
If this thread has any conclusion maybe it's that there are lots of strategies to get into the right mindset and you might have to experiment a bit to find the things that work for you individually, and the different scenarios in which different things work..?

[tomtom]

It’s interesting hearing different ways...

For me bouncing Around like the kid in a sweet shop doesn’t work - I just end up doing bits of lots of problems..

I also find that getting angry does NOT work at all for me - or any sort of shouting / screaming.

[spidermonkey09]

If this thread has any conclusion maybe it's that there are lots of strategies to get into the right mindset and you might have to experiment a bit to find the things that work for you individually, and the different scenarios in which different things work..?

What Barrows said. Endlessly interesting topic though.