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Mental game (Read 15458 times)

SA Chris

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#25 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 10:15:02 am
What, the stuff you put between bathroom tiles?

Blintflint

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#26 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 10:19:29 am
Yep self deceit that is the plan; keep it casual but at the same time try bloody hard sounds ideal

Blintflint

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#27 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 10:27:41 am
Two significant growts in my mental performance came from top climbers. One was talking to Marc LeMenestrel the time he came and did the second ascent of Brad Pit in three tries or something right off the plane (Then UK's highest-graded boulder problem I think - what is it with those LeMenestrels?), the first flash - i think - of Deliverance and Jerry's Traverse.

He talked about enjoying the process in a way that really sank in. Of enjoying every move on every attempt, and learning from every experience of it. It really sank home, turning every experience into a success.

The other was writing the Jerry Moffatt book (available for 9.99 from all good bookshops), and what I took from that was how much he enjoyed giving 100%. I took this in. I sometimes find myself sessioning a problem with some friends and then going, Right, watch this, and firing off the problem, Jerry style. So it was about not seeing trying your hardest as some sort of chore, but as having the best time of your life.

So the core of both these is enjoyment.
Is the Jerry Moffat book Mastermind, Revelations or another one? Dammit its all coming back to positive thought. I do enjoy trying hard, in projecting and in training, think I just get a bit sick of it when the end result keeps kind of slipping away. Frustrating but then I guess it become a vicious circle.

petejh

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#28 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 10:35:47 am
In terms of applying vague concepts to your specifics - what's the route or problem, and which hold/s do you fail on?
The two vague concepts being:
1. Not caring too much.
2. Giving 100% with a unrelentingly positive attitude.

You could set yourself the goal of 'giving 100% effort to get to hold x (which isn't the top)', and then switching mindset to 'not caring at all, just take a look' for the next bit. Or some variation of.

Disclaimer: member of the process flow-driven ambassadorial global cliMiNin community.

spidermonkey09

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#29 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 10:38:39 am
It does come down to positive thought in part, yes. Its become a bit of a modern climbing cliche but its because its true; you have to enjoy the process. If you don't naturally enjoy the process of working things out and incremental progress I can imagine this is quite hard. Logically though, it helps to think about what you would do if you did a given route/problem/grade quickly and easily. Would that be sufficient and you'd continue to climb around that grade for the foreseeable future, or are you driven to try and push your limits a bit more? Both of these are totally valid approaches to climbing and we all know people who follow each path. If the latter, then the inevitable conclusion is that eventually you will have to expend considerable time and effort on a given route/problem/grade. Obviously, we'd all like to do things that are hard for us quickly and easily, but then they wouldn't be hard for us!

Blintflint

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#30 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 10:51:59 am
Incremental progress is enjoyable, I do like the process of projecting. It just seems that where some people consider 10 sessions on a problem a seige, that seems pretty normal to me in fact pretty short. Probably a bit of over reaching going on I guess. All food for thought anyway cheers

grimer

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#31 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 10:53:16 am
BlintFlint I meant Revelations. Not dug into Mastermind but I guess it covers the same ground.

shark

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#32 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 11:03:03 am
Incremental progress is enjoyable, I do like the process of projecting. It just seems that where some people consider 10 sessions on a problem a seige, that seems pretty normal to me in fact pretty short.

Like Nic Sellars said - stop counting when it gets into double figures.

I’m into over 10 years on my project spending probably 15-20 days on it each year. If it makes you feel better about your own performance feel free to take the piss. Everyone else does. It’s a ukb public service  :ang:

Doylo

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#33 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 11:07:33 am

He talked about enjoying the process in a way that really sank in. Of enjoying every move on every attempt, and learning from every experience of it. It really sank home, turning every experience into a success.



Very hard to keep that mindset going on a 25+ dayer.

shark

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#34 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 11:10:09 am
Some mental mantras before you set off can be helpful and also as jwi says tailored to the route.

‘Controlled aggression’ is what Jerry said he used. I’m currently experimenting with ‘climb decisively’

However, saying ‘I can do it’ or even ‘I will do it’ is likely to be less effective as it is too focussed on the outcome rather than helping being immersed and performing in the actual climbing.

Being too focussed on outcomes can leading to fucking up the final moves.

cheque

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#35 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 11:12:53 am
Mastermind's brilliant, particularly if you read it all in Jerry's voice in your head.

The best advice in that book is along the "mental deceit" lines mentioned in this thread- when you have a good day, get your route done, climb better than expected etc. tell yourself something along the lines of "that was just like me, I'm a great climber who always succeeds with what I want to do" (I hope you read that in Jerry's voice) and if you have a bad day, or even a bad attempt on your route, just dimiss it as a blip and literally never think of it again apart from in a detached "what could I have done differently to succeed" way. It's classic psychopathic behaviour but, as climbing doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things you only have to gain from thinking like that as long as it's just about your climbing.

I didn't realise it but my mental approach was the opposite of that and it was a total-eye-opener. I'm hardly a control subject so won't comment on whether or not it's made me any better but it really helped me enjoy climbing and training again.

spidermonkey09

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#36 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 11:13:22 am

Like Nic Sellars said - stop counting when it gets into double figures.


How many times has Nic actually had to count beyond 10 on a project though! I think hes right, have made a conscious effort to not count this year even though I write down every session so would be easy/tempting to.

Smith42

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#37 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 01:00:02 pm
Read Rock Warriors Way. 

Blintflint

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#38 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 02:29:15 pm
Like Nic Sellars said - stop counting when it gets into double figures.

I’m into over 10 years on my project spending probably 15-20 days on it each year. If it makes you feel better about your own performance feel free to take the piss. Everyone else does. It’s a ukb public service  :ang:
[/quote]
I don't count at all if I did I think I might give up lol.
10 years?! wtf you must love that bit of rock... Post a compilation of you falling off that will make everyone feel good ;)

Blintflint

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#39 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 02:31:03 pm

He talked about enjoying the process in a way that really sank in. Of enjoying every move on every attempt, and learning from every experience of it. It really sank home, turning every experience into a success.



Very hard to keep that mindset going on a 25+ dayer.

Yeah that's more when I feel like bashing my head against the rock

Johnny Brown

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#40 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 02:31:54 pm
Getting back to the OP, who I'm pretty sure is talking about bouldering not redpointing, an approach I've used a few times effectively is to go and solo something fairly hard/ bold (for you) to reset your brain a bit, from the try-hard-but-fail state to smoth-flow-failure-not-an-option.

For example, I remember in '97 (I think) almost doing Brad Pit and then having several poor goes shaking with over-excitement. I took some deep breaths, went and soloed White Wand, then came back in an amped-but-calm state and dispatched. Similarly when I did my hardest redpoint (admittedly not very hard), my preparation mainly revolved around being very well rested, along with some gentle soloing to ensure I was moving well without being tired.

It can be very tempting to just have one more go because you nearly did it. After five or six nearly goes it's probably time to try do something else, at least for a short time, lest you do a Jim and rip your bicep off.

Blintflint

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#41 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 02:40:27 pm
Mastermind's brilliant, particularly if you read it all in Jerry's voice in your head.

The best advice in that book is along the "mental deceit" lines mentioned in this thread- when you have a good day, get your route done, climb better than expected etc. tell yourself something along the lines of "that was just like me, I'm a great climber who always succeeds with what I want to do" (I hope you read that in Jerry's voice) and if you have a bad day, or even a bad attempt on your route, just dimiss it as a blip and literally never think of it again apart from in a detached "what could I have done differently to succeed" way. It's classic psychopathic behaviour but, as climbing doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things you only have to gain from thinking like that as long as it's just about your climbing.

I didn't realise it but my mental approach was the opposite of that and it was a total-eye-opener. I'm hardly a control subject so won't comment on whether or not it's made me any better but it really helped me enjoy climbing and training again.

Yeah I've read Mastermind a couple times and Revelations. Jerry got a pretty distinct voice. Classic line 'I'm the best climber in the world, never get pumped, can stick anything etc'. I need a line like that at a lower level or maybe I should just aim for delusional levels of self deceit ;)

Blintflint

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#42 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 02:44:52 pm
Getting back to the OP, who I'm pretty sure is talking about bouldering not redpointing, an approach I've used a few times effectively is to go and solo something fairly hard/ bold (for you) to reset your brain a bit, from the try-hard-but-fail state to smoth-flow-failure-not-an-option.

For example, I remember in '97 (I think) almost doing Brad Pit and then having several poor goes shaking with over-excitement. I took some deep breaths, went and soloed White Wand, then came back in an amped-but-calm state and dispatched. Similarly when I did my hardest redpoint (admittedly not very hard), my preparation mainly revolved around being very well rested, along with some gentle soloing to ensure I was moving well without being tired.

It can be very tempting to just have one more go because you nearly did it. After five or six nearly goes it's probably time to try do something else, at least for a short time, lest you do a Jim and rip your bicep off.

Yeah I only boulder really. Thats pretty interesting about the soloing, guess its gets you in that calm headspace. Nice one. Definitely guilty of having too many tries in one session before, has lead to some injuries.

petejh

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#43 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 03:14:08 pm
Yes - sport crags the world over are full of grumpy people giving 100%.

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#44 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 04:04:30 pm
Two biggies for me:
1 - Sit down on mats under problem, chalk up, clean shoes, general faff prep.  Close eyes and visualize every hand and foot move with intensity and detail including body movements and changes.  Then shut down the brain.  Try to eliminate everything from the mind and be still and mentally silent for 5-10 seconds.  Re-chalk pull on and climb. If i can stay in the mentally still state, I generally can send...  easier said than done.

2 - After doing that 30-100 times over multiple sessions, and punting on moves that should never be punted from, throw a massive wobbler including throwing of shoes, mat, chalk bag, (and if possible - your mates shoes and gear).  Spend an hour trying to find all of the shit that you threw.  Have a good laugh a yourself! Then pull on and send.

Blintflint

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#45 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 04:36:50 pm
Two biggies for me:
1 - Sit down on mats under problem, chalk up, clean shoes, general faff prep.  Close eyes and visualize every hand and foot move with intensity and detail including body movements and changes.  Then shut down the brain.  Try to eliminate everything from the mind and be still and mentally silent for 5-10 seconds.  Re-chalk pull on and climb. If i can stay in the mentally still state, I generally can send...  easier said than done.

2 - After doing that 30-100 times over multiple sessions, and punting on moves that should never be punted from, throw a massive wobbler including throwing of shoes, mat, chalk bag, (and if possible - your mates shoes and gear).  Spend an hour trying to find all of the shit that you threw.  Have a good laugh a yourself! Then pull on and send.

Got massive wobbler down pat already. Now for the harder one... cheers

shark

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#46 Re: Mental game
May 22, 2019, 05:16:03 pm
Its helped me climb faster if nothing else

You mean it wasnt my persistent bullying? :(

That provided the motivation but not the means

highrepute

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#47 Re: Mental game
May 23, 2019, 08:30:39 am
This scenario has played out many times in my climbing... Three climbers are trying the same route/boulder. You're all of similar ability. You all get to the stage where the moves are worked and the route/problem will fall any go now. Jacob does it the next go. Hugh sends it around 10 goes later and Shark is still trying it 10 years later. What separates these three climbers is their mental game.

I think this mental game is deeply ingrained. Perhaps it's genetic or the sum result of all the events in our life before this point. Either way it's who we are.

Now, i think you can shift things in your favour by doing all the things mentioned in this thread. I think newer climbers have a lot of gains to make but I don't think we're talking about them. More experienced climbers have a harder time, the gains are take time, effort and practice to come by.

I've never seen anyone go from a Shark to a Jacob, or even a Hugh to Jacob. Anyone managed to transform their mental game or know someone who has?

shark

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#48 Re: Mental game
May 23, 2019, 08:59:27 am
I’m insulted. I think my mental game is pretty good. I’m just an over-ambitious, crap and weak-for-the-grade climber

grimer

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#49 Re: Mental game
May 23, 2019, 09:01:01 am
Yes High repute. I have. The examples I gave above are real and made a big difference to my climbing (mainly in sport / bouldering / indoor). I went from a Shark to a Shark+.

 

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