[andy_e]

No you don't. You can scrap your way to the huge set of jugs to rest for three hours before embarking on a totally different style of climbing for the finish.

[tim palmer]

The extension to underhand adds nothing, underhand is a tough 7b+ (harder than the keel  ) but the extension is still 7b+.

[tim palmer]

with that in mind the keel is pretty steady if you can find the right beta

[spidermonkey09]

with that in mind the keel is pretty steady if you can find the right beta

*if you're as strong as Tim Palmer!

I thought The Keel as considerably harder than Underhand Ext (presuming normal build requiring cut loose on chip). Perhaps the Almscliff 7C equation looks something like Underhand Ext < The Keel > Demon Wall Roof Left Hand?

[Will Hunt]

Not that I want to carry on bleating about The Keel, but the cut loose method isn't normal. Only tinies have to do it. I remember there being a time when I thought The Keel was easier than Underhand normal but think I'd revise that now.

And FWIW, the extension to Underhand only adds nothing if you're Tim Palmer, to whom 7B+ is nothing, and 6C is equally nothing, and thus nothing plus nothing is nothing. Basic maths.
I don't think it adds a full grade's worth of difficulty, but it does add something.

[dunnyg]

Some say if you haven't done the cut loose you haven't done the keel. Extension definitely adds something for me (ie the weak) as I havent done it...

[cheque]

nothing plus nothing is nothing

“...you gotta have something, if you wanna beeee with me”

[tim palmer]

the keel with cut loose is probably harder than underhand but that is because the cut loose is terrible beta. 

demon wall left is miles harder than keel or underhand ext .

[spidermonkey09]

demon wall left is miles harder than keel or underhand ext .

Yep. Mistakenly typed the wrong symbol in previous post (maths never was strong point...)

[mr chaz]

Which bit of the peak are these in?

  keep your keel/underwank talk to power club mofos

[Murph]

Thanks chaps. I guess there’s a few to fondle. Yep, left heel dominant climbs - there seem to be a lot of them about these days. On the basis that I’ve done remergence and hanging rib i was hopeful that a couple of those low starts might be easy for the grade. For the avoidance of any doubt I am not thinking of one’s that aren’t really the given grade. But just appreciate not all of us can tell the difference. The 7A I was trying today....it wouldn’t make a difference if it was 8A it wasn’t happening.

Breakfast - some of the confusion must come down to short people using the tall person beta. I put a few sessions into it using my 6’ mate’s beta. Went quickly when I was shown the short arse way. Course, wizards would just do it the right way first time using the force. 

Plus good to know what to go at if I ever find myself back at almscliff.

Ta!

[tomtom]

Underhand is 6C with the double heel beta...

[Footwork]

On lime, I thought Bigger Splash Direct Kneeling was barely any harder than the 7B stand.   

absolute bullshit

[tim palmer]

On lime, I thought Bigger Splash Direct Kneeling was barely any harder than the 7B stand.   

absolute bullshit

true dat

[abarro81]

On lime, I thought Bigger Splash Direct Kneeling was barely any harder than the 7B stand.   

absolute bullshit

true dat

+ 2, and +3 for my wife who did all the other moves on Tsunami easily but couldn't do the move to the lh undercut on the kneel. This, surely, is what we all know already: bouldering grades make relatively little sense, because it only takes 1-2 moves to fit you or not fit you and problems will feel very easy or very hard for the grade. The fact that grades even come close to making sense is really a miracle

[Eddies]

I can think of a few  7C's from previous guidebooks that have since been downgraded to around 7A.

Fact Hunt at Balsow 7C-7A+

Bizarre at the Churnet - 7C-7B

and most recently Man size at Ramshaw. That is still 7C in the latest guidebook and will be downgraded to 7A with the new beta that's in all the vids, so go bag it while its still half-legit!!

On lime I found The Press a soft touch, and, dare I say it, Paint It Black... But all other lime ticks around that grade have been hard fought.

[36chambers]

On lime, I thought Bigger Splash Direct Kneeling was barely any harder than the 7B stand.   

absolute bullshit

true dat

+ 2, and +3 for my wife who did all the other moves on Tsunami easily but couldn't do the move to the lh undercut on the kneel. This, surely, is what we all know already: bouldering grades make relatively little sense, because it only takes 1-2 moves to fit you or not fit you and problems will feel very easy or very hard for the grade. The fact that grades even come close to making sense is really a miracle

I am surprised by these replies, but fair enough.

Although footwork literally tried it twice, so his comment means nothing

[andy_e]

On lime I found The Press a soft touch

Interesting. My strength is locking off on my left shoulder and I've had loads of sessions on it and can't do it yet. I guess strong fingers help too...

[SA Chris]

one trick pony