[Will Hunt]

I think the Font grade of a lot of harder grit routes is relatively low. I've not done Marrowbone, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were 6C. 6C is hard! What would End of the Affair get if there was flat ground below the crux? 6B+?

The other thing is to imagine some 'easy' boulder problems if they wee at 6m. The photograph, E7 6c. Hourglass, E6 6b. Pebble Arete is 6 feet away from being E5 6a. Strawberries, E8 6c. Fuck, imagine doing Strawberries and if you fell off you'd break your pelvis.

Thanks Niall. It's stating the bleedin' obvious but apparently it needs stating. What was your approach with the Font grades on Peak highballs?

Part of the problem with people accepting this is (in my opinion) because bouldering standards are generally pretty high now, so there is a certain disdain with which sub 7A problems are observed, and there is an assumption that anything <7A is "easy". It might be easy in that you can be near certain of doing it in a few goes, but there's a world of difference between that and having complete certainty that you will onsight eveything you might find at a particular grade. I think of 6B+s as easy, but I'm not surprised or cross if I don't flash every single one of them. It's definitely a grade that can catch me out and make me try.
People still feel a sense of achievement from highballing an E5 or E6 or whatever, but are scandalised to think they might have been challenged by a 6C piece of climbing - hence Psycho et al must be 7A or more.

[grimer]

I think the Font grades, when given to trad / highballs in the Peak books, have erred on the generous side. I was going to start listing the ones that I thought were generous, but I thought that would look like HALAMising going by the above.

I cannot comment on the Caley examples, but wouldn't be surprised if you were spot on.

[user deactivated]

What about the reverse examples?

Groove is in the heart
Against the grain
Earth boots etc

[grimer]

I don't know, I haven't done them.

[Duncan campbell]

This is a pretty tricky one I guess. And it’s ver dependant on the style these things are climbed in, non?

I guess the deal is that when you are up high, above x amount of pads, things feel scary and consequently harder. Much like bold trad routes I guess? Doing a 6a move way out from a bomber piece may well feel 6b, but doing it next to said piece maybe not so bad?

Regarding psycho at caley. Tricky one - I really struggled on the start - ended up having to have both hands on pebbles to rock out right to the pocket/chickenhead. Top I did first go, felt fairly tricky but as I said before if it was by the ground maybe I’d not have found it so bad. A lot of my (not shit but taller) mates found the start ok but struggled on the top.

You’d be fine on the great flake will as I think(?) you are fairly tall? I took a gross fall off the top just after doing psycho that gave me a bad heamatoma on my elbow! Doubt it’s 7B tbh!

Highballs- they are so ace aren’t they!?

[turnipturned]

A few random thoughts:

Finally, please tell me that Great Flake is at least 7A or a bit harder (7A+ maybe).

I thought it was about V5 (whats that 6C+?) but you wanted to be climbing 7B/C confidently on the grit!!

I am not really sure I have an opinion (or really care for that matter) however, I think there is a clear distinction for 'Highballs'.  There are Highballs like High fidelity/ Lanny Bassham that if you fall on your head you are probably going to be fine in a few days (road tested that theory) then there are highballs like The Young/ The Prow that if you fall on your head or badly you probably going to be spending a bit of time in Royal Victoria Infirmary or an even longer in a coffin. Therefore if I had done the latter as a FA, I would probably grade them slightly harder than they actually are to prevent people getting any misconceptions.

Anyway my comments are probably irrelevant, as this thread seems to be describing routes as highball boulder problems. Marrowbone Jelly isn't a boulder problem regardless of how many pads you have.

[kingholmesy]

A few random thoughts:

Finally, please tell me that Great Flake is at least 7A or a bit harder (7A+ maybe).

I thought it was about V5 (whats that 6C+?) but you wanted to be climbing 7B/C confidently on the grit!!

  That’ll be my problem then!

[Fiend]

8B climber in "not being able to grade 6C+ for toffee" shocker.

Something does strike me as a bit awry when you have to have 5 grades confidently in hand....although maybe that's the point!

I do hope webbo is co-writing the book with Will....

[webbo]

8B climber in "not being able to grade 6C+ for toffee" shocker.

Something does strike me as a bit awry when you have to have 5 grades confidently in hand....although maybe that's the point!

I do hope webbo is co-writing the book with Will....

That seems to be the way these days. On the thread about the meaningless of grades Will talks about getting confident at E3, which given he’s bouldered 7c+ gives him quite a bit in hand.

[BID]

I totally understand the point about strawberries above a ground fall being ridiculously hard, but if something is to be given a boulder grade, it should be independent of the height completely for me.

And the FA should try to put themselves into an un-scared mindset when grading it afterwards. If it does include real danger or the crux is high etc then give it an E Grade too.

At the lower end of the spectrum, I understand when highball font 4s are given 5+. It stops punters needing air ambulances. But when you're speaking about mid sixes upwards, it should be independent of height for me.

[Will Hunt]

NSFW  Off-topic. As delighted as I am to talk about myslf, this thread isn't about me.:

8B climber in "not being able to grade 6C+ for toffee" shocker.

Something does strike me as a bit awry when you have to have 5 grades confidently in hand....although maybe that's the point!

I do hope webbo is co-writing the book with Will....

That seems to be the way these days. On the thread about the meaningless of grades Will talks about getting confident at E3, which given he’s bouldered 7c+ gives him quite a bit in hand.

Off topic again.
In my defence I'm a shite route climber. Transference from one discipline to another doesn't necessarily just happen. I've watched an 8c+ climber spend multiple sessions on a Font 7C. Does that mean I should be knocking out 9a's? Of course not.

[Duncan campbell]

Very much off topic but is the NSFW, which I believe stands for Not Safe For Women, a little bit sexist??

[Ru]

Very much off topic but is the NSFW, which I believe stands for Not Safe For Women, a little bit sexist??

Not Safe For Work

[reeve]

I thought it meant Not Stretched for Will, which is why he is able to give everything the big old downgrade, despite claiming to be short. Have I misunderstood?

[Will Hunt]

Very much off topic but is the NSFW, which I believe stands for Not Safe For Women, a little bit sexist??

Thanks, Duncan. I needed a laugh.

[tim palmer]

And the FA should try to put themselves into an un-scared mindset when grading it afterwards.

Asking the impossible no? 

[Duncan campbell]

Very much off topic but is the NSFW, which I believe stands for Not Safe For Women, a little bit sexist??

Not Safe For Work

Ahhh. That’s obvious really. Stupid me, thought I had seen it as women somewhere but equally I may have just thought that was the lost likely word. Probably putting me in the sexist camp. Sorry

[petejh]

Probably putting me in the sexist camp. Sorry

 

[Duncan campbell]

 

[tomtom]

PMSL

[lukeyboy]

PMSL

Pissing My Self Ladies? 

[Duncan campbell]

Must be. What an odd acronym

Much like LOL which can only be leaning on ladies

 

[petejh]

PMSL

Pete must stop leering?

[mr chaz]

  Probably More Sexist Lingo

[User deactivated.]

I'm thinking about this right now because i'm working on a guide for the bouldering at Hawkcliffe (around 30 new problems!) and there are a few highballs, which unfortunately will need a grade for the guide to be useful.

Until this point, I've always been of the opinion that height shouldn't affect the grade, but on one new boulder I felt it did. I've done quite a few hard highballs this year and my process has been to work them on a grigri until I have a reasonable success rate on all the moves and then execute. Generally, I'm able to remain focused on the movement and climb well, but this new one has a move near the top off of terrible smears where you need to do a huge dynamic lock off move to a slopey edge that you need to hit precisely, and also keep half of your brain power on the feet which can't pop. I could do it most of the time on the rope, but when it came to the real thing, I just couldn't generate enough force to make the distance and took some huge lobs.

Something in my subconscious was obviously stopping me.  Alex Honnold aside, there are probably very few people who can completely eliminate their subconscious and perform a high move exactly as though it was right off the deck every time. Eventually I latched it and did the climb, but I've no idea how to grade it because it felt harder off the rope than on it and usually I find the opposite to be true.

TLDR - there's no consistent rule that will work for all highballs.