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IFSC pulls the pin on Paraclimbing @ 2019 World Cup In Japan. (Read 1740 times)


mrjonathanr

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DAVETHOMAS90

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Offwidth

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Signed.   Utter madness... how out of touch are these people.

SamT

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Shouldn't that read "pulled the plug"

Pulling the pin has the opposite connotation.

SamT

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BrutusTheBear

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Shouldn't that read "pulled the plug"

Pulling the pin has the opposite connotation.
you’re quite right.   Nice one for signing folks.

Oldmanmatt

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Done and shared.

Shared on the Wall’s page too.

That’s pants. Surely they must have realised how this would be perceived?

lagerstarfish

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I like the way that paraclimbing has been linked to the rest of the climbing. we are all different, but it's just climbing.


Most of us climbers are a bit different from the mainstream and it makes sense to be represented together

mrjonathanr

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I like the way that paraclimbing has been linked to the rest of the climbing. we are all different, but it's just climbing.


Most of us climbers are a bit different from the mainstream and it makes sense to be represented together

Absolutely. This chap was in Magic Wood when we were there, impressively keen climber.

danm

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Knowing the inside story, I'm not signing the petition. The sentiment is a good one, but this has come about as a result of individuals, who should have known better, releasing information which was confidential, and thus stirring up a shit storm before the IFSC could properly prepare to release the unfortunate news. News item here covers it: https://www.thebmc.co.uk/ifsc-paraclimbing-world-championships-2019-briancon-france

Tldr: IFSC got shafted by the venue, had to make a tough call about whether a combined championship would still work, in the meantime someone decided to tell people about it, which some people (because we do so like to be offended these days) took as evidence that the IFSC don't care about paraclimbing.

DAVETHOMAS90

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"Tough call"

For who's benefit are "tough decisions" made, and where is priority given?

And how patronising is it to comment on how we are offended?

I appreciate how sentimental we all are, but for me, the more signatures on that petition, the better.

danm

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The tough call was about having to risk running a combined Championship which probably wasn't going to work, or potentially upsetting some competitors by moving part of the competition to another venue.

Given that a) one reason for hosting in Japan is because the Olympics are being held there next year, so a dry run for climbing there would be advantageous and b) Paraclimbing doesn't feature in the Olympics yet (if you want to know why not, I can elaborate) then it makes sense that IF you were going to move one of the comps, it would be the Para part as this doesn't gain any special benefit from being held in Japan, whereas the able bodied comp will.

What I find equally as patronising as your feeling of offence is the assumption that the people making the decision don't give a fuck about paraclimbing. This seeking out of offence, and entitlement to outrage is a blight on modern society, fed by the internet. How about a little more faith in humanity?

slab_happy

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it makes sense that IF you were going to move one of the comps, it would be the Para part as this doesn't gain any special benefit from being held in Japan, whereas the able bodied comp will.

Do you think they ever even considered moving the able-bodied comp?

This seeking out of offence, and entitlement to outrage is a blight on modern society, fed by the internet. How about a little more faith in humanity?

There's a lengthy track record of paraclimbing being treated as the "poor relation", with the paraclimbing comps being held on smaller subsidiary walls while the climbing comps are on the main lead walls, comp routes that are patronizingly easy relative to the top climbers' abilities, categories being scrapped or merged at the last minute so that people end up having to compete against people with much milder impairments, etc..

It's not "seeking out offense" to notice that historically, paraclimbing has often not been given the same respect.

If the IFSC want to get given the benefit of the doubt and have people take it for granted that of course they value paraclimbing just as much, then that's something they have to earn.

BrutusTheBear

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One championship for all, that is the inclusive ideal that should be striven for.  If the starting point was this, then the ‘scheduling error’ would’ve been overcome.  If as is stated above the venue ‘shafted’ the IFSC then the IFSC should move the whole shebang elsewhere.

Wait for the press release you say, sounds suspiciously like wait for us to get our our story straight from the outside.  I hear from some other inside knowledge that there was no Paraclimbing representation or involvement in any of the decision making regarding this ‘error’.  If this is true, that’s direct discrimination right there isn’t it?

Despite the infrastructure being there, the IFSC had to be challenged about the lack of live-streams for the Paraclimbing at previous events.  They claimed it wasn’t ‘financially viable’, however it has become financially viable after a little pressure was applied by people who care.

The idea that people are seeking out offence is offensive in itself.  The idea that you might be offended by someone else being offended is any irony that maybe lost on some! 

People experiencing disadvantage, being overlooked, being discriminated against, being excluded etc.  Deserve the support of everyone else.  As DT says.. If you care, sign the petition and get your friends to sign it, the more the better.


danm

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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. It's great to hear that people are passionate about paraclimbing though.

I still think that too often it is peoples first reaction to assume the worst and look for offence, and to say that thinking this is offensive is to my mind just ignoring vast amounts of evidence which we see  around us every day. I really do think it's become a huge problem for society and civil discourse. But that's just my opinion. I hope your signing the petition achieves what you desire.

DAVETHOMAS90

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I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. It's great to hear that people are passionate about paraclimbing though.

I still think that too often it is peoples first reaction to assume the worst and look for offence, and to say that thinking this is offensive is to my mind just ignoring vast amounts of evidence which we see  around us every day. I really do think it's become a huge problem for society and civil discourse. But that's just my opinion. I hope your signing the petition achieves what you desire.

Dan, I don't think that's really the case. There was nothing else in the news item that wasn't already apparent. And I'd have to say, what do you mean by "agree to disagree"? You seem to be reducing what people think and feel about this issue to "sentiment" and "passion" and "offence" - as though they are somehow lesser or secondary to the "tough (but someone has to do it)" practical solutions - and viewing this as something to be bargained with.

bigironhorse

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I still think that too often it is peoples first reaction to assume the worst and look for offence, and to say that thinking this is offensive is to my mind just ignoring vast amounts of evidence which we see  around us every day. I really do think it's become a huge problem for society and civil discourse. But that's just my opinion. I hope your signing the petition achieves what you desire.

Totally agree with this, but in this case I think the IFSC could have handled this better and it sounds like they didn't make much of an effort to keep paraclimbing in.

tregiffian

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Having climbed these 50 years, overwhelmingly on the blunt end, with one arm and a bad leg but with the odd VS and one genuine new route on my record, I shudder at the thought of trying to make sure that like competes with like. A small difference in e.g. knee flexion can make a big difference.

BrutusTheBear

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The  proposed event in France replaces an existing WC event that was already on the calendar and thus the Paraclimbers are down one event this season, as well as being down the opportunity to compete in Japan.  IFSC so far have not suggested adding an event to replace the one that is lost.