[El Mocho]

I'm normally pretty good in the skin department - very rarely get splits (prob under 5 times in 30 years!), don't sweat massively etc.

Just had 2 weeks without climbing (flu) and yesterday noticed skin on fingers was starting to peel a bunch. Went out a did some soloing today and my skin is wrecked. Lots of layers peeling off, pink 'fresh' skin showing, fingers showing the signs of sweatiness like when you have thin skin, bit tender to the touch.

Whilst I was ill I did my normal of moisturising fingers every second day or so. I did have a bunch more baths than normal as I was aching all over 

Has my skin just got too soft from not climbing? I've had similar time off in the past and not had this happen. I thought my skin would be fucking great 

Also what is the knowledge re taping and superglue etc? Had 1 of the aforementioned splits before I got ill and tried to tape and climb over the next few days - I found it really hard to climb with tape on, tape rolled back etc. I bought some superglue (which came with a little brush applicator) but then got ill before trying it out. I was gonna try tape finger in thin strip (starting at tip, working back to 1st or maybe all way to 2nd joint) and then painting glue over top?

[spidermonkey09]

Wish I had such reliable skin!

I can only comment re: taping splits as I get a persistent one on my right index finger. While its healing I take a very long thin strip of tape, probably about 4mm and tape the first joint of the finger starting at the front and working back to the first joint. This tends to stay put pretty well so I don't use glue in addition to this, but I redo it before every go when sport climbing. Tends to roll a bit on the grit but not too badly.

[tomtom]

For splits - Tape and glue - I use the well tested method passed down to me by gnarly sports climbers at the Tor :D


Tear a small strip - about 5-6mm wide - and long enough to just about go around the finger. Smear glue on the centre 1cm of the strip (you don't need much) then put that bit while the glue is still wet over the split and fairly tightly tape on (not mega tight). The glue means the tape at that point of your finger doesnt slip away.

I do however find that this can make splits heal a little slower (I think - not really sure) so try and avoid using this method - its a last resort - wont be able to have another go for a few weeks type method.

[remus]

Also what is the knowledge re taping and superglue etc? Had 1 of the aforementioned splits before I got ill and tried to tape and climb over the next few days - I found it really hard to climb with tape on, tape rolled back etc. I bought some superglue (which came with a little brush applicator) but then got ill before trying it out. I was gonna try tape finger in thin strip (starting at tip, working back to 1st or maybe all way to 2nd joint) and then painting glue over top?

Im in the 'long and thin' camp. I put a bit of super glue on my tip first then quickly wrap the thin strip round, starting at the tip and working your way down. I'd go to just above the second joint, then do an elongated spiral kinda thing so that the tape finishes right at the base of your finger. This helps stop the end of the of the tape lifting up and thus the tape job unwrapping.

The glue is really good for keeping the tape in place but it can be a bit savage taking it off. If your skin is trashed already then might want to be careful that you don't rip what's left off when you remove the tape.

It's not as good as your skin being in good nick, but I can usually get 2 or 3 good redpoints in with the above tape shennanigans.

[El Mocho]

Cheers all, no idea why my skin has gone so shit but some good info re tape. Guess seeing vids of people crushing with tape on I was expecting it to be better, not tried it before and was pretty unimpressed with my attempts. Might experiment with my painting on idea on top of the tape as I don't like the idea of damaging skin removing tape...

[SA Chris]

If you were full of the flu you could have been hot and sweaty for long periods and it trashed your skin.

[joel182]

I'm normally pretty good in the skin department - very rarely get splits (prob under 5 times in 30 years!), don't sweat massively etc.

How?!

I'm not a fan of mixing super glue and tape, but haven't really experimented with it much. I like to do a vertical strip from the joint over the fingernail, then two horizontal strips around (each one starting and finishing on the back of the finger). I find climbing with tape on the index finger is particularly terrible - tape on other fingers doesn't seem to matter as much.

[tomtom]

Removing isn’t too bad. Soak in hot water and tease off... after a shower often is fine for me

[IanP]

I'm normally pretty good in the skin department - very rarely get splits (prob under 5 times in 30 years!), don't sweat massively etc.

How?!

Agreed, mad to think that somebody who climbs so much has never had to tape tips before!

For me skin is often a limiting factor so I even sometimes tape pre-emptively to protect skin, removing tape for the redpoint attempt.  Most important technique for tips is to do a figure of 8 between the first an second joint to hold the tape in place.

This link is pretty good:

https://www.metoliusclimbing.com/how-to-tape_finger.html

I don't usually bother with the vertical strip but the general principle works pretty well either way I think.

[mrjonathanr]

My skin was a real mess when I worked in Sellafield years ago, suited and booted and had to wear 3 sets of marigolds taped over each other. Landlady pointed me towards Neutrogena (said husband had been a fisherman) and lots of that that fixed it. Might be worth a punt.

[Will Hunt]

El Mocho's worst skin day sounds like my best 

There's probably a PhD to be done on the different types of skin wear and how they heal.

[turnipturned]

My skin always does that, if I have climbed a lot on rock, really worn it down then had a few days off, it basically all falls off. Just needs hardening up again.

Split tip wise, if using superglue, get some vetbond, (basically exactly the same as human superglue, but for animals, but way cheaper), not sure superglue is particularly safe to use.

Taping. I put a tab of glue on the sides of my finger and on the back of the nail, then tap up the finger in pretty small strips making sure to do little figure of 8 (megos method). It’s bomb and doesn’t move.

Having only 5 splits tips in your climbing career, sounds like your not trying hard enough Ben!

[tomtom]

I used vetbond for a while after getting worried about carcinogens in superglue... but having done a bit more reading about it decided that the number of times a use it - it wasnt worth getting fussed about.

I have noticed that no-one seems to make a superglue dispensor/packet that doesnt gum up/bung up over time (especially when bashed about in the top pocket of a rucksack) so I now get a blister pack of 5 small tubes from the pound shop and treat each one as effectively disposable. (though one of those little ones has lasted several applications and not bunged up... theres a lesson tehre somewhere..).

You can also get super glue remover (not tried) and UPVC fitters use a superglue/fixer combo with an aerosol spray that makes the glue cure instantly. Never tried it or seen it outside of trade places....

[Will Hunt]

So does vetbond not have the nasties in it? Seems like a no-brainer to use it if it's also cheaper?

[tomtom]

So does vetbond not have the nasties in it? Seems like a no-brainer to use it if it's also cheaper?

OK - before I LMGTFY you on this... regular superglue (cynoacrylate from memory) may have some nasties in it. 'Medical' grade superglue (for hoomans) is a slightly different not so nasty formula. Vet grade superglue (vetbond) is as far as I can see identical to Medical grade superglue but much cheaper.

When I last looked into it (you can do the same on Amazon/ebay etc..)

Medical £10-15 a tube
Vet £3
regular <£1

(prices all approxomates from my diminishing memory. Must be the glue..)

[Will Hunt]

Thanks Tom, that's helpful. But no need to patronise me. I could have googled that myself, but since I don't presently have an understanding of what specific chemical substances may be carcinogenic (given that The Sun thinks toast is carcinogenic I expect this is a field requiring more than a cursory glance to understand what constitutes "significant" carcinogenic risk), nor whether broken skin would allow these chemicals to pass into the body and be assimilated in places that they made do harm, nor what superglues are made of, nor what different varietes of superglue there are available and how their chemical make-ups differ, I think it was reasonable to ask somebody who already knows for 2 minutes of their time to give us a precis. In the unlikely event that I can ever help you out in a similar way then I'd be more than happy to 

[tomtom]

Thanks Tom, that's helpful. But no need to patronise me. I could have googled that myself, but since I don't presently have an understanding of what specific chemical substances may be carcinogenic (given that The Sun thinks toast is carcinogenic I expect this is a field requiring more than a cursory glance to understand what constitutes "significant" carcinogenic risk), nor whether broken skin would allow these chemicals to pass into the body and be assimilated in places that they made do harm, nor what superglues are made of, nor what different varietes of superglue there are available and how their chemical make-ups differ, I think it was reasonable to ask somebody who already knows for 2 minutes of their time to give us a precis. In the unlikely event that I can ever help you out in a similar way then I'd be more than happy to 

Ooooooooh! Thats what I get for pointing out that I saved you doing your own research!


Again.


:D

[Will Hunt]

[tomtom]

Will - to save me some time could you please use google to find me an animated gif depicting irony?
Thanks,
Tom

[kelvin]

You can also get super glue remover (not tried) and UPVC fitters use a superglue/fixer combo with an aerosol spray that makes the glue cure instantly. Never tried it or seen it outside of trade places....

I use this regularly but it makes the superglue extremely brittle. Sure if hardens quickly but I think for any possible climbing application it would be useless.

[mrjonathanr]

As every girl knows, superglue remover goes by the real name of acetone nail polish remover so quite cheap to source.

[shark]

OK - before I LMGTFY you on this... regular superglue (cynoacrylate from memory) may have some nasties in it. 'Medical' grade superglue (for hoomans) is a slightly different not so nasty formula. Vet grade superglue (vetbond) is as far as I can see identical to Medical grade superglue but much cheaper.

When I last looked into it (you can do the same on Amazon/ebay etc..)

Medical £10-15 a tube
Vet £3
regular <£1

(prices all approxomates from my diminishing memory. Must be the glue..)

Was looking to get surgical skin glue (ie flexible superglue) and came across this thread.

Vetbond now £25!
This looks similar but still £17.

Other products look like single use only. Basically looking to smear on my tips for when my skin wears thin. Any recs?

[Ally Smith]

Caveat - I'm not a trained HSE advisor.  I do however read safety data sheets on a weekly/ monthly basis as part of my job.

Comparing the SDSs for both ethyl cyanoacrylate (gorilla glue) and 2-octyl cyanoacrylate ("medical" superglue) by both have the cautionary "H351 - May cause cancer" statement.

This statement is used when there is limited/incomplete data on carcinogenic nature of a substance. 

Looking further into the physical properties of both substances, neither has substantial water solubility (water or alkali causes the polymerisation that makes it bond together). 

Do some reading and make your own mind up whether an expensive superglue is better for you than cheapo gorilla glue?

[spidermonkey09]

 Medical superglue is the dogs knackers but short of a heist from hospital stores not sure its worth the money. In my experience they are single use only, once perforated they dry in the tube so not the best for repeated use anyway.

[shark]

Do some reading and make your own mind up whether an expensive superglue is better for you than cheapo gorilla glue?

It’s the plasticity I’m bothered about. Superglue just cracks if you spread it on your tips. It works well with tape though. Someone said that with medical glue you don’t have to use tape. Is Gorilla glue plastic (as in it doesn’t crack?)

[shark]

Medical superglue is the dogs knackers but short of a heist from hospital stores not sure its worth the money. In my experience they are single use only, once perforated they dry in the tube so not the best for repeated use anyway.

From the thread above it sounds like the vet products are the same ie the Medbond linked above for £17

[webbo]

Having had the incision that was made in my left buttock so they could replace my hip, glued. I would say that medical superglue has something that the stuff I’ve used to glue splits sadly lacks.

[Dingdong]

Do some reading and make your own mind up whether an expensive superglue is better for you than cheapo gorilla glue?

It’s the plasticity I’m bothered about. Superglue just cracks if you spread it on your tips. It works well with tape though. Someone said that with medical glue you don’t have to use tape. Is Gorilla glue plastic (as in it doesn’t crack?)

Have you tried layering it? I usually do this:

1. Sand the skin to flatten the split and use a razor blade to clean and further smoothen the split

2. Apply first layer of superglue and use a utensil to flatten the superglue so it’s not lumpy

3. Once dry sand it down until it’s flush with skin

4. Apply 2nd layer of superglue and once again flatten it, sand it, let it dry and then do the same with a 3rd layer

This usually makes it less likely to crack and last way longer. I suffer from splits a lot especially on the tips…

[moose]

Re the relative safety of the various grades of superglue, my understanding is that they are all cyanoacrylates but with slightly different molecular structures that give slightly different properties - rate of curing, stability, adhesive power etc.  The key difference for dealing with wounds is their relative rates of degradation and release of formaldehyde / methanal.  Bostik / Gorilla Glue etc form a stronger, harder bond than the veterinary / medical grade variants, but breakdown faster and release more formaldehyde. 

Formaldehyde is a carcinogen but considering the amounts concerned and the length of exposure, I suspect the more realistic risk is irritation / inflammation of the wound.  Incidentally, formaldehyde is hard stuff to avoid - it's given off by burning lots of fuels, and leaches from construction materials like foam insulation, plywood, particleboard etc. Personally, if I felt glueing would help get me up a problem, I would not be too concerned... but then I had a decade in a lab that was awash with PFAS, have spent the last decade exploring fire scenes potentially containing asbestos, and drink too much. So, figure glueing splits would be last in the queue of "activities that will be implicated in my death". YMMV!

That said, I personally avoid gluing tape to flesh, just because of squeamishness about removing it afterwards. I use superglue but apply it between the layers of wraps e.g. where "figure 8s" cross themselves and to anchor where the wrap ends - maybe not as secure as gluing to skin but appreciably reduces slippage and makesthe tape job last longer.

[shark]

Interesting stuff but none of this is helping me get a rec for a skin glue that will provide a second skin for when my tips wear thin

[Dingdong]

Interesting stuff but none of this is helping me get a rec for a skin glue that will provide a second skin for when my tips wear thin

Like I said, I just layer normal shop glue and that works for me

[joel182]

did a bit of googling on this and from what i could find:
medical superglues are n-butyl cyanoacrylate based e.g.: Vetbond is 99% N-butyl cyanoacrylate with 1% Hydroquinone (which seems to be mostly added to preserve shelf life)

standard superglues seem to be mostly/entirely ethyl cyanoacrylate

the cheapest product i could find with N-butyl cyanoacrylate is LiquidSkin (amazon link) - since a standard 3g-4g tube of superglue gets quite a few uses, i guess each 1g tube should do a few sessions

[shark]

Interesting stuff but none of this is helping me get a rec for a skin glue that will provide a second skin for when my tips wear thin

Like I said, I just layer normal shop glue and that works for me

I’ll have a play but surprised it doesn’t crack

[Dingdong]

Interesting stuff but none of this is helping me get a rec for a skin glue that will provide a second skin for when my tips wear thin

Like I said, I just layer normal shop glue and that works for me

I’ll have a play but surprised it doesn’t crack

Usually one layer is weak but if you do 3 layers and then sand inbetween goes it keep it from cracking as much. YMMV.

[Fultonius]

Are you really talking about just splooging a thin layer over your entire tip Shark? Having had normal Superglue on my tips through spillage / lack of attentionz the frictional properties it provides are so bad I just can't see medical grade stuff being any better. Do people actually do this?

If my skin is that thin my elbows usually need a rest day or two anyway.

[lagerstarfish]

Usually one layer is weak but if you do 3 layers and then sand inbetween goes it keep it from cracking as much. YMMV.

I misread this as meaning putting sand on in between layers of glue 

[tomtom]

Thought about wearing gloves? Superglued on if they're a bit wriggly?

xx

[shark]

Having had normal Superglue on my tips through spillage / lack of attentionz the frictional properties it provides are so bad I just can't see medical grade stuff being any better. Do people actually do this?

There was an old hand from Sheffield at Datca who said he did just that and it worked well. Apparently it was a suggestion he picked up on in Ned’s book.

[Blintflint]

Yeah Ive done it before some sessions on nearly every tip lol

[Dingdong]

Are you really talking about just splooging a thin layer over your entire tip Shark? Having had normal Superglue on my tips through spillage / lack of attentionz the frictional properties it provides are so bad I just can't see medical grade stuff being any better. Do people actually do this?

If my skin is that thin my elbows usually need a rest day or two anyway.

This technique isn’t really for covering tips that have been ground down, it’s more if you get a small split on a tip, you can glue that little split area back together and crack on. I usually use a very minimal amount to just cover the split itself

[tim palmer]

Are you really talking about just splooging a thin layer over your entire tip Shark? Having had normal Superglue on my tips through spillage / lack of attentionz the frictional properties it provides are so bad I just can't see medical grade stuff being any better. Do people actually do this?

If my skin is that thin my elbows usually need a rest day or two anyway.

This technique isn’t really for covering tips that have been ground down, it’s more if you get a small split on a tip, you can glue that little split area back together and crack on. I usually use a very minimal amount to just cover the split itself

I have tried this and just made the split way worse.  I have climbed a lot with taped tips and have found the method described in beastmaking the best, I don't even bother with super glue, I find most tape sticks fine alone provided your skin is cleanish