[PeteHukb]

Here we go...
Was working on this the other day when a helpful bystander informed me that it was a mandatory jump start - specifically from LH pocket to RH "ball" - to get the original 7B tick, or alternatively a stand start from LH pocket and RH flattie for 7C.

Copious videos show people jumping directly to the RH higher sloper/guppy and claiming the tick. (eg )

So come on then, what's what? And can it really be that great a problem if you have to be so specific about how to start? 

[bendavison]

Never tried it, but sounds like it's a 7C (i.e. doing it from standing) and everything else is working the moves? Bit like the Joker and the Ace...

[Bradders]

Hi Pete, I was the helpful/unhelpful (depending on your PoV) bystander 

To my knowledge it's the jump start that's mandatory; as in, you start LH on and jump RH but it doesn't matter which bit you actually catch with your RH. Sorry if I wasn't clear yesterday, sure I didn't specify that you have to jump to the ball thing but apologies if I gave that impression.

I don't think it's actually any easier jumping to one hold as opposed to the others though. What you definitely can't do (for the 7B original tick) is stack pads allowing a static pull on 

Also, I'm not sure anyone's saying it's that great a problem

Ben - I wouldn't put it in the same category as The Joker (which I agree is just working the moves on The Ace). It's more akin to a typical jump start in Font.

[Will Hunt]

This has always been something of a nemesis for me. Bradders' description of the rules is spot on. You can either jump or start low. People either jump to pinch the boss or they go a bit up and right of the boss to a supposed crimp (which I never seem to have found) which is often touted as the easier option.

Personally I've always thought that the jump start is hard for 7B. Maybe those with long legs are adversely affected as they kip around post jump and pull you off...

[spidermonkey09]

This is one of the shittest allegedly classic problems I have tried in Yorkshire. Yes I did get spanked, but it would clearly benefit from a large jug appearing, thereby creating a good 6b ish! 

[gollum]

In the past I have climbed this both ways and they are both equally difficult or easy dependant on your perspective. I’ve also played around with lots of alternative ways of getting established on the wall, which have involved lots of contorted movements, but I did used to go here a lot.

The traverse in from the left is entertaining, although often green but I always thought the start from hanging/kneeling was harder as you had to pull rather than use the momentum you had on the traverse.

I always liked it as some days it was a path and other days simply wasn’t going to happen.

[Bradders]

I think the 'classic' thought comes more from the fact that it was a Ron Fawcett FA and, as Ted pointed out to me yesterday, would at the time have been quite futuristic/next gen.

The name, as I understand it, comes from people having previously started it off a block; a method which is as clearly unacceptable as stacking pads! That said, I've always thought it ought to just be started from the ground like a normal boulder problem as jump starts are a bit shit.

[Footwork]

I just did what Ben Bransby did in Stick it. No one's going to say back around to Ben 

[Will Hunt]

What did he do?

[36chambers]

- a popular well known problem [check]
- relatively old [check]
- FA by a well known climber [check]
- features in a classic climbing film [check]
- known to shut people down who may otherwise climb well at the given grade [check]
- good and/or relatively unique moves [check]

I'd say it's deserving of its 'classic' status. Particularly when any problem someone is willing to film gets called a classic nowadays.

[Fiend]

- a popular well known problem [check]
- relatively old [check]
- FA by a well known climber [check]
- features in a classic climbing film [check]
- known to shut people down who may otherwise climb well at the given grade [check]
- good and/or relatively unique moves [check]

Only one of those indicates whether it might be any good, though....

[Footwork]

I'd say it's deserving of its 'classic' status. Particularly when any problem someone is willing to film gets called a classic nowadays.

and let's not forget people filming GEMS. I might start referring to chipped problems as blood diamonds. 

[PeteHukb]

Ah hi Nick, wondered if you might be on here. The "helpful" was defo genuine, I'd always rather know these things up front!

Agree that the "low standing" start at 7C makes most sense overall. I think my discomfort with the other options comes from the fact that I can reach the "ball" hold from 2 pads, which didn't seem unreasonable - although 3 was a bit more comfortable  It felt like anyone taller than me might have to dig a hole to do the jump start. Although if jumping to the higher hold is an option that might be better for the tall. Back to beer towels I say, you knew where you were with them.

[Johnny Brown]

It was always my nemesis too, even as a jump start. I think 7b is harsh. I've no beef with jump starts personally, they're more logical than sitters.

[dunnyg]

Anyone got the beta or beta vids for the non jumpy start for this?

[Bradders]

Anyone got the beta or beta vids for the non jumpy start for this?

I don't know of any vids but it's pretty basic. Starting holds depend on finger girth but I've always started LH pinching the obvious thing, RH next to it. Pull on with right foot on an obvious low foothold and dyno to the ball thing. Not really all that much to it.

[dunnyg]

I was hoping for some sneaky alternative beta, guess I will just have to get better. Thanks!

[teestub]

It’s kinda weird that the stand start got added as the default version in the newest guide, when over around 20 years of climbing at Caley I’ve only seen people do the jump (or tall people start off the first RH bump from standing). Not sure who made this decision but it seems weird.

Best non tall beta: jump off LH pinch to first bump, left foot on, drop LH into sidepull, rh up to top bump as guppy, jugs.

[dunnyg]

Yeah, I managed to drag myself up the jump, so thought the lower start is worth a look. The sit looks a bit too hard for now!

[Bonjoy]

Best non tall beta: jump off LH pinch to first bump, left foot on, drop LH into sidepull, rh up to top bump as guppy, jugs.

Jugs with which hand? I cross over to them with LH off the guppy.

[dunnyg]

Left hand up to jugs works for me, but only if you have the guppy on, it is nails otherwise!

[36chambers]

Anyone got the beta or beta vids for the non jumpy start for this?

I don't know of any vids but it's pretty basic. Starting holds depend on finger girth but I've always started LH pinching the obvious thing, RH next to it. Pull on with right foot on an obvious low foothold and dyno to the ball thing. Not really all that much to it.

So starting matched on the big fat pinch? Sounds nails, that ball thing is hard enough to hold from the jump start let alone with any extra swing. 


The only sequence I've ever got to work is starting LH in the pocket and RH on the big fat pinch, campus RH to gaston the small diagonal crimp (the one you'd normally fall into with your LH) get LF up on the big obvious foothold, roll LH over to pinch the higher part of the boss, flick RH to the sloper that taller folk usually jump to, then I think it was RH up awkwardly to the juggy flake.

Although this sequence works, it's really grim.

I remember seeing somewhere on UKB that it's also possible to do the stand starting cross handed, so RH pocket, LH pinch, left heel up somewhere and going LH over to the diagonal crimp, but I've never been able to get it to work.

[teestub]

I think the guppy was your beta originally Bonjoy many moons ago!

[dunnyg]

Sounds entertaining, and more moves than I imagined. I will have a fall off these options next time I'm there. Thanks 

[Bradders]

So starting matched on the big fat pinch? Sounds nails, that ball thing is hard enough to hold from the jump start let alone with any extra swing. 

Yes that's it. As you say hard swing to hold, needs bon con and to catch the ball just right.