[Rocksteady]

Bit of a weird one. I was belaying at the climbing wall a little while ago next to a performance coach belaying one of the youth squad.

She was tying in and I overheard I conversation that I think is way out of line with best practice.

Something like:
Him: "What is going on there?" (pointing at little roll of fat above girl's harness)
Her: "It's my six pack."
Him: "It's not a six pack. You have been eating too many crisps."
Her: "I don't even like crisps."

Now at this point I had to catch my falling partner and was distracted. I didn't speak to the coach at the time as I should have done. But the more I think about it the more I think this needs to be addressed. This was a pre-pubescent girl he was talking to, and she was climbing reps on 7b so was going quite well for her age, and I'm pretty sure at her age it would be totally healthy to be carrying a bit of extra weight.

In any event, it shows a disastrous lack of awareness of body issues in climbing, particularly young female climbers, that needs to be resolved.

I don't have a view on whether or not this guy is otherwise a good coach. He clearly needs some training on this issue. It could have been banter and in line with their relationship but I wonder what her parents would think?

The only complicating factor is that I am closely related to an independent climbing coach who occasionally works at this wall. This genuinely isn't a factor in me raising feedback but I'm concerned that because of who I am they might consider this to be a motivation and (a) not take it seriously and (b) badmouth my relative. I could raise it via anonymous feedback to their comments tin - my concern there is that this would come in front of the wrong people which would be unfair to the coach concerned and also not see any action taken. I could do the same via an anonymous email but again would be good to see action taken.

Probably I'm overcomplicating this and should just go and chat to the wall manager. What are people's views?

[tomtom]

Tough one...

I'd be tempted to go to the wall manager and just say what you heard (and described above). Let him/her be the judge of whether or not that was in/out of line. May well be as you pointed out (a) bantz (I hate that word) or (b) out of line or the coach may even have a bit of form for this...
In my view people learn from being called out on saying something wrong/inappropriate (I've been called out on it before and learnt from it) so I'd see it as a positive thing rather than stirring/telling tales.

[webbo]

Tough one. Would a sports teacher at school be out of order pointing this out or is it case of how it should be broached.
I think at least it should be pointed out that a discussion like this should not be done in a public environment.

[thekettle]

In my view people learn from being called out on saying something wrong/inappropriate (I've been called out on it before and learnt from it) so I'd see it as a positive thing rather than stirring/telling tales.

I'm not sure I'd agree with calling out leading to learning, unless it's private, or the recipient is very reflective and humble. Publicly it can lead to a defensive response, which in turn can lead to 'digging in' and entrenching of their own opinion.

Either way it's pretty shocking behaviour and even as banter is playing with fire - a quiet word when no-one else can hear, or a word with the manager if you think they can deliver the message appropriately may be the way forward. Even if it's just casually raising the topic of body image issues among female climbers and adolescents - such as this article:
https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/features/growing_pains_-_the_weight_of_womanhood-10942
or the recent shocking stat that 43% of elite (8a upward) female climbers showed symptoms of eating disorders, compared to 4.6% of the general population
https://www.climbing.com/news/disordered-eating-poses-a-danger-to-climbers/
Just a chat about that may trigger some reflection and a behaviour change in the future (I would hope).

[jwi]

Here's the deal: do not say anything in public about other peoples appearance. This is really basic. Even more basic is that the only one who's any right to call you fat is your doctor. To comment on someone's weight from a position of power is so wrong that the mind boggles.

Raised by wolves one imagine.

[Fiend]

I'd say she won the bantz at least

[andy popp]

Here's the deal: do not say anything in public about other peoples appearance. This is really basic. Even more basic is that the only one who's any right to call you fat is your doctor. To comment on someone's weight from a position of power is so wrong that the mind boggles.

Raised by wolves one imagine.

  The coach's behaviour was wrong in every possible light.

[petejh]

Here's the deal: do not say anything in public about other peoples appearance. This is really basic. Even more basic is that the only one who's any right to call you fat is your doctor.

Who has the right to call fat doctors fat?

[mrjonathanr]

Fatdoc.

Now re OP- absolutely, it isn’t an appropriate conversation to being having, you are right to want to address it.

Nick Colton is the BMC safeguarding lead, he is a good person to ask advice on how best to approach this.
nick@thebmc.co.uk

[teestub]

or the recent shocking stat that 43% of elite (8a upward) female climbers showed symptoms of eating disorders, compared to 4.6% of the general population
https://www.climbing.com/news/disordered-eating-poses-a-danger-to-climbers/

The big problems in the general population are to be found at the other end of the eating spectrum!

[user deactivated]

I think the majority of people with eating disorders are within a healthy bmi. People struggling with bulimia can often be overweight. Sports which apply pressure to weight and body image would clearly lead to more restrictive / obsessive dieting. Not sure there is such a thing as the general population

[petejh]

or the recent shocking stat that 43% of elite (8a upward) female climbers showed symptoms of eating disorders, compared to 4.6% of the general population
https://www.climbing.com/news/disordered-eating-poses-a-danger-to-climbers/

The big problems in the general population are to be found at the other end of the eating spectrum!

It's interesting to think about what we consider an 'eating disorder'.

Assuming that the quote above comes from the US then that 'general population' - who we're to assume are normal (4.6% aside) and don't have 'an eating disorder' like 43% of female elite climbers  - are nethertheless overweight in 75% of cases and obese in 35%. The ill health associated with obesity is severe. 1 in 5 kids are obese, most are overweight.

Not making light of eating disorders, just putting it in perspective of ill health effect associated with eating.

(before anyone says, I know what an 'eating disorder' is and about the seriousness if left untreated, and its mental health component).

[SA Chris]

1 in 5 kids are obese, most are overweight.

Really? Most kids are overweight? Is that US, UK or Global?

Going to the safeguarding guy at BMC seems like a good start.

[ghisino]

regarding the coach.

if it's not a widely known issue about him, think feedback of this nature is more likely to be accepted if it comes from a friend or from a fellow coach with whom he has a good, respectful relationship.

Confronting him either from "above" (wall manager) or "below" may just lead him to get defensive as someone said.

If it's a known issue and he's been given loads of advice on this issue, then complain to the manager- to get him fired and/or "persona non grata" at the wall...

[nai]

Really? Most kids are overweight? Is that US, UK or Global?

If I can remember where I saw this the other day I'll post the link but in the UK 1 in 4 are overweight when they start primary and 1 in 3 by the time they start secondary.

[abarro81]

or the recent shocking stat that 43% of elite (8a upward) female climbers showed symptoms of eating disorders, compared to 4.6% of the general population
https://www.climbing.com/news/disordered-eating-poses-a-danger-to-climbers/

Interestingly, I was about to vocalise scepticism of the test used in that research, betting that it would flag me as being  sketchy on my relationship with food despite not having an eating disorder.. then I took it as was surprised by how well I felt it fitted me (the slightly sketchy end of being ok)...

Back on the OP, that kind of approach to running a youth team does not seem advisable! +1 to ghisino's post regarding how feedback might be taken by the coach in question

[petejh]

1 in 5 kids are obese, most are overweight.

Really? Most kids are overweight? Is that US, UK or Global?

The US. As that’s where that climber.com stat comes from.
Actually the statistic is:

2016
Prevalence of overweight among children and adolescents, BMI > +1 standard deviations above the median (crude estimate) (%)
5-19 years
Both sexes
42.5%

The UK is 31.1%.

From the WHO here:
http://apps.who.int/gho/data/node.main.BMIPLUS1C?lang=en

The ‘most kids’ comes from prediction for 2020...

[Rocksteady]

Fatdoc.

Now re OP- absolutely, it isn’t an appropriate conversation to being having, you are right to want to address it.

Nick Colton is the BMC safeguarding lead, he is a good person to ask advice on how best to approach this.
nick@thebmc.co.uk

Thanks for the thoughtful replies all.

I am generally not the type of person to interfere with how others conduct themselves, but I just felt that this was a completely inappropriate projection of an adult concern with body composition onto a vulnerable junior. I'm pretty sure physiologically girls of her age put on weight naturally, in order to develop healthily. It shows some serious ignorance from the coach of the demographic he's supposed to be coaching.

She took it very robustly at the time but it's the long term mental effect of these sort of comments that has been bothering me. She must be in one of the highest risk age groups for this type of concern to take hold as well. Kids have enough troubles to deal with, with social media etc, without this sort of comment coming from someone who's supposed to be a mentor. 

It's been preying on my mind - I'll get in touch with the BMC safeguarding rep as suggested, I feel this is the best way to approach this to get a peer/best practice discussion going rather than it coming from me or wall management - the latter I do not have massive faith in addressing the situation, especially as the individual concerned is one of their 'senior/master' coaches.

[jwi]

No of people who've gotten better health from fat shaming: 0

[sdm]

Interestingly, I was about to vocalise scepticism of the test used in that research, betting that it would flag me as being  sketchy on my relationship with food despite not having an eating disorder.. then I took it as was surprised by how well I felt it fitted me (the slightly sketchy end of being ok)...

Do you have a link to the test?

[SA Chris]

Hopefully this was done out of ignorance of the implications of a throwaway statement rather than done with any maicious intent.

However it might be good to highlight this to the BMC and maybe some guidelines get released to climbing walls around the country, as I a suspect this might not be an isolated event. Sensitivity to these issues should be highlighted at a coach / mentor level as well as peer group.

[teestub]

Do you have a link to the test?

https://www.eat-26.com

[sdm]

Thanks

[Oldmanmatt]

Having dealt with this, in reverse, with a young lass who was not eating, but exercising obsessively.

It never occurred to me to talk to her.
I took her dad to one side and made sure that he was aware. Pretty damn gently too. Turns out they were and she was already in treatment, and had been since age 10.
In fact everything was more complicated than I’d imagined. If I had tried talking to her, I might have precipitated an avalanche.

(Some people can be a bit of an arse, when completing “Parental consent” forms and health declarations).

[petejh]

No of people who've gotten better health from fat shaming: 0

I'd question that.. For a start what even is fat shaming? Is it simply being told you're overweight, or is it something more like bullying?

If it's simply being told matter of factly that you're overweight, then is it 'heart disease shaming' to be told you have heart disease or 'cancer shaming' to be told you have cancer?

Being overweight or obese as a child is a condition that's strongly linked to disease and ill health in later life.

Clearly, kids shouldn't be given inappropriate messages around food and body image especially by mentors (although we all seem to prefer looking at those not so subtle messages). But shouldn't that work in either direction - 'eating disorder' or over eating? It seems to me that it's more culturally acceptable to be concerned about under-eating than it is to be concerned about over eating. Maybe because the risk from 'eating disorder' is far more acute, and therefore of more pressing importance to address. Whereas someone developing diabetes 20 years in the future is more difficult to conceptualise and be concerned about..?