[seankenny]

Come on then folks, suggestions on a post card..  Who is the leader you desire?  Does this person exist? Preferably not someone bought or owned by corporate interests or the state of Israel.

So is that a no-Jews policy? Or only approved Jews?

[BrutusTheBear]

No Jews were mentioned in my post but if you think it’s OK for an MP to receive payment from any state go ahead and explain why you think that might be a good thing?
As far as I am aware Israel is the only state giving money to MPs.

[tomtom]

No Jews were mentioned in my post but if you think it’s OK for an MP to receive payment from any state go ahead and explain why you think that might be a good thing?

Brutus, did you mean the present Israeli Government - rather than the State of Israel?

https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-the-government-and-the-state

[mrjonathanr]

For the avoidance of doubt Brutus, it was me who puntered you for:

bought or owned by corporate interests or the state of Israel.

The reason is that I don't like the sly rehashing of anti-Semitic tropes.  No faux-innocent hiding behind 'Can't I denounce the corrupting pay of vested interests?' hypocrisy here, thank you very much. That's rubbish.

You didn't randomly mention Israel within a list of the 200+ countries in the world which might seek to gain leverage over elected representatives: you chose that state, with its ethnicity and referenced long established anti-Jewish conspiracy theories.

Take your racism, conscious or otherwise, elsewhere. Not welcome here.

[BrutusTheBear]

Yeah. I meant government.

[BrutusTheBear]

You’re also right that I didn’t randomly mention Israel, as that government is the only one I am aware of that donates money to our politicians..  prepared to eat humble pie to a certain extent for clumsy use of language.  Ie. State/government.  Don’t think our politicians should be able to take money from any outside interests let alone from the government of another country.

[seankenny]

You’re also right that I didn’t randomly mention Israel, as that government is the only one I am aware of that donates money to our politicians..  prepared to eat humble pie to a certain extent for clumsy use of language.  Ie. State/government.  Don’t think our politicians should be able to take money from any outside interests let alone from the government of another country.

One imagines you’re far less concerned about politicians taking cash from the state broadcasters of regimes that hang gays from lampposts.

[BrutusTheBear]

Nope, that sounds shite.. Would like to know more?

[seankenny]

Nope, that sounds shite.. Would like to know more?

Yeah. Some shitty pol took a bunch of money from an Iranian TV company. I think it’s one close to the Revolutionary Guard - they have money and interests across the Iranian state. Don’t know if you’ve been to Iran but when I visited ordinary Iranians were scared shitless of those guys.

Just the sort of people we want putting money into British politicians’ pockets.

[tomtom]

Al Jazirra have of course paid for several recent ex politicians salaries. Alex Salmond, George Galloway. And also funded a documentary about Israel govt funding UK politicians that is (apparently) cited by some to the left of the LP.

[BrutusTheBear]

Just been having a big chat with my ever so sensible and wise wife over the above..  Been called out as a racist whether intentional or unintentional is a pretty heavy situation for me and has me questioning a lotta things.  Definitely not who I am or who I will be in everyday life at any point and anyone who knows me personally will know my values and what I have always stood for...  Amongst the things we discussed, was the echo chamber of fudgebook/ social media, I have been contemplating coming off for sometime because political discourse leads nowhere and everything I follows affirms what I know (or what I think I know).  Maybe, the things I read and learn are leading to particular ways of thinking and I have certainly read a lot on socialist sites around things such as LFI interfering with/ undermining the LP leadership or Israeli government officials offering money to ‘take down’ UK politicians.  I most definitely had this in mind when posting.  Whilst without doubt these things are happening and shouldn’t be, it maybe to my detriment to not consider or be aware of how all International interference affects our politics.  I am prepared to learn and be enlightened on everything in life and to accept if I have things wrong.  I should have said ‘bought or owned by corporate entities or any outside influences’ specifying a particular state (I see now) could be interpreted negatively.   Lesson learnt and left here for everyone  else to learn from.

JR if I have caused personal offence to you I apologise.

Language  can easily offend  and it is easy to cause offence without intention eg. From above  ‘Gay people’ would be way more appropriate than referring to people as ‘gays’. 

Now please carry on discussing Leaving the EU or not Leaving the EU before this thread goes way and I’ll just slink off with my tail between my legs for the time being.

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually Brutus.

We were discussing how important the language used in political discourse is....

[BrutusTheBear]

Glad I could so ably illustrate that for you.

[mrjonathanr]

I should have said ‘bought or owned by corporate entities or any outside influences’

Then you'd have been on safe ground. Good answer Brutus, thank you for your courteous and considered response.   

[winhill]

I'm not defending anyone's right to use inflammatory language Stu - although I would if they were. I don't agree that labelling the ben act the surrender act is 'martial' or 'inflammatory language' as some have put it. Saying it is is a wonderfully easy way to shut down a valid argument.

One thing I think is key here is whether Labour have a history in one direction or the other. unfortunately they do and it's very one sided.

In February whilst Luciana Berger, (a pregnant jewess driven out of the Labour Party by racism, who has seen FOUR people imprisoned for violent and racist messages sent to her), was holding her TIG press conference, Young Labour tweeted this: "Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We'll keep the red flag flying here", implying TIG were cowards and traitors.

The line is, of course, part of the chorus of The Red Flag, sung last week at the end of the Labour conference (did Sherriff sing along?) same as it has been done for decades.

Here's a vid of Harold Wilson singing the same lines in 1969:



A Labour councillor, Sam Gorst, tweeted that Berger was a “hideous traitor” and “backstabber”. He was investigated for anti-semitism (cleared ) but no-one in Labour questioned his use of language.

If Sherriff is "sick" of this language how can she sit with her Labour colleagues?

[SA Chris]

One thing I think is key here is whether Labour have a history in one direction or the other. unfortunately they do and it's very one sided.

Not true, they provided backing vocals on the first album.

[petejh]

Take that, Winhill.

[SamT]

Now now.. lets not let this get too spicy girls!

[petejh]

Now now.. lets not let this get too spicy girls!

Looking at the typical poster this thread seems almost exclusively a boyzone.

[SamT]

Eeeee - 17 posts in the last few days though, so quite popular.

[SamT]

 

[tomtom]

Now now.. lets not let this get too spicy girls!

Looking at the typical poster this thread seems almost exclusively a boyzone.

Not Boys2Men?

[petejh]

No girls aloud here.

[tomtom]

We're All Saints.

[SamT]

Practically Bros