[SA Chris]

3 in one, is that a hat-trick?

[Will Hunt]

That’s a bit rich from Chuka. He dangled before our noses the tantalising possibility there being a party leader / PM with actual at-the-coalface experience of garage DJing - someone who could literally claim to offer the illest flava in the House. And then he walked away because the Daily Mail doorstepped his gran...

Didn't know that.

Minister, Minister!

[TobyD]

From Rafael Beher's article in the guardian today:
Raab has come to the same conclusion that David Davis and Boris Johnson reached earlier in the year: it is easier to be on the team that accuses the prime minister of failing to deliver majestic herds of unicorns than it is to be stuck with a portfolio that requires expertise in unicorn-breeding.

Yup. And the reaction of labour and the ERB is much like a 4 year old saying 'i don't like it' when presented with dinner before he's tried it. It's all descending into a petty power struggle, which it always was anyway really.

[SA Chris]

sums it up really

[galpinos]

It's all pretty incredible. We've got a Brexit deal that no-one seems to want, negotiated without the Brexit Secretary and that threatens to topple the Prime Minister, if not the Government. Bonkers.

[tregiffian]

Does Olly Robbins have a role here?

[mrjonathanr]

It's all descending into a petty power struggle, which it always was anyway really.

I’d suggest Labour’s tests have everything to do with being unfulfillable the better to precipitate a GE and nothing to with critiquing a Brexit which its  leadership is basically fully in favour of.

Good article on Dominic -who knew Dover was a port?- Raab and resignations herehttp://politics.co.uk/blogs/2018/11/15/raab-resigns-the-shabby-end-of-a-pitiful-career



edit- just had to add- amazing that Raab has resigned because he's in a huff over Brexit terms. What, exactly, was his job again?

[Wood FT]

That’s a bit rich from Chuka. He dangled before our noses the tantalising possibility there being a party leader / PM with actual at-the-coalface experience of garage DJing - someone who could literally claim to offer the illest flava in the House. And then he walked away because the Daily Mail doorstepped his gran...

Didn't know that.

Minister, Minister!

He has a past that would shaft him if he moved higher than he is.

source: Pob. Don't ask me for further details yet, source is on an island off Northumberland.

[Oldmanmatt]

How many Brexiteers does it take to change a light bulb?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
One, to promise a brighter future, the rest to screw it up...

[petejh]

And a mixed group of remainers and brexiteers to refuse to flick on the light switch.

[mrjonathanr]

And 27 people in adjacent rooms to come to unanimous agreement.

[Yossarian]

That’s a bit rich from Chuka. He dangled before our noses the tantalising possibility there being a party leader / PM with actual at-the-coalface experience of garage DJing - someone who could literally claim to offer the illest flava in the House. And then he walked away because the Daily Mail doorstepped his gran...

Didn't know that.

Minister, Minister!

He has a past that would shaft him if he moved higher than he is.

source: Pob. Don't ask me for further details yet, source is on an island off Northumberland.

Exactly. They asked his gran if it was true that he once lost an arm-wrestling match against Lisa Maffia in Ayia Napa. She said no comment...

[mrjonathanr]

I wonder what a second referendum would actually bring. For every voter who thinks this is unworkable and best abandoned there will be one who imagines a lack of belief/commitment/unicorns has resulted in the EU running the show and we'd just need a better team to secure a better deal.

[TobyD]

edit- just had to add- amazing that Raab has resigned because he's in a huff over Brexit terms. What, exactly, was his job again?

What the f*** has he been doing for the last few months?

Re Labour's tests and reaction, they're not really interested in the deal or indeed what happens, other than exactly like the ERB that they might be able to get into power if they play their cards right. Generally I think most politicians are ultimately well intentioned, but today's events are embarrassing.

[Oldmanmatt]

And a mixed group of remainers and brexiteers to refuse to flick on the light switch.

 

[abarro81]

edit- just had to add- amazing that Raab has resigned because he's in a huff over Brexit terms. What, exactly, was his job again?

Re Labour's tests and reaction, they're not really interested in the deal or indeed what happens, other than exactly like the ERB that they might be able to get into power if they play their cards right. Generally I think most politicians are ultimately well intentioned, but today's events are embarrassing.

I'm not sure what else you'd expect/want? They have to be seen to be opposing Brexit (lest people like me vow to not vote for them for a decade) whilst not being seen to oppose Brexit (lest others vow to not vote for them for a decade).

[petejh]

I still believe in leaving the EU. I don't believe in a lot of politicians, who's agendas appear to be self-interest and power rather than national interest. May has actually grown in my estimation - this was always going to involve a lot of compromise and I think she's done as well as she could with an extremely difficult task, and kept her head when all around are losing theirs. The balance of power - DUP / minority Conservatives with a large minority of hard-line brexiteers - meant she was always negotiating for something that couldn't win approval no matter what she came back with. While negotiating with a group of naysayers stood behind her. 
In my view Labour are even more of a cynical embarrassment than the hard-line brexiteers. At least the hard-liners are transparent in believing in something they're prepared to articulate and stand for and that people can agree or disagree with. Labour are content to stand for - what? Labour stand for nothing in this. Mediocre failure perhaps. To allow a policy, which a majority of their constituents voted for, to fail or flounder and risk a much worse outcome and then point fingers at that failing in the dim hope that they'll fluke into a position of power on the back of events much larger than them.

[teestub]

 To allow a policy, which a majority of their constituents voted for....

Figures based on the 2015 vote https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted would disagree with this, and wasn't there an even larger labour swing in the 2017 election?

They're stuck with woah Jeremy leading them who is pro brexit and strongly in chocolate teapot territory as a useful opposition, when they should be getting behind the wonderfully coiffed Kier Starmer and at the very least pushing for a second referendum, if not offering to cancel the whole thing as a platform for another GE.

Remainers are currently left with no-one to back on the political stage, unless there's going to be a huge upturn in support for Lib Dem (still bothered about tuition fees right now?) or Green, whilst Brexiters get to decide what flavour or leave they want among the Tories.

[petejh]

 To allow a policy, which a majority of their constituents voted for....

Figures based on the 2015 vote https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted would disagree with this, and wasn't there an even larger labour swing in the 2017 election?

You're right. A large minority.

[sdm]

 To allow a policy, which a majority of their constituents voted for....

Figures based on the 2015 vote https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted would disagree with this, and wasn't there an even larger labour swing in the 2017 election?

You're right. A large minority.

So you're saying that the will of their constituents is to remain?

[teestub]

Made more difficult by a majority (60% I think) of Labour consituencies being leave overall (due to population distribution among constituencies).

[galpinos]

......unless there's going to be a huge upturn in support for Lib Dem (still bothered about tuition fees right now?) ........

The problem is, we have heard chuff all from the Lib Dems through this entire process. At least they always turned up to vote though......... oh.......

[teestub]

I think they’ve probably been squeaking away in the background but they lack a ‘charismatic’ old Etonian to guarantee national news coverage.

[petejh]

 To allow a policy, which a majority of their constituents voted for....

Figures based on the 2015 vote https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2016/06/27/how-britain-voted would disagree with this, and wasn't there an even larger labour swing in the 2017 election?

You're right. A large minority.

So you're saying that the will of their constituents is to remain?

No.
According to Full Fact, the will of the people in a 61% majority of Labour constituencies was to leave.

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservative-and-labour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/
''The results of the EU referendum weren’t counted by parliamentary constituency, so we don’t know for sure how constituencies voted. A small number of councils did release official breakdowns by parliamentary seat, and data on some other areas was obtained by the BBC via Freedom of Information requests.

The best figures we have for other constituencies comes from Professor Chris Hanretty, a political scientist at Royal Holloway University, who combined official results and the BBC data with statistical methods in order to estimate the proportion of Leave and Remain voters in every seat in England, Scotland and Wales.

These estimates show that while the national result of the referendum was relatively close, with 52% voting Leave and 48% voting Remain, a much larger majority of parliamentary seats voted to Leave – with 64% of seats in Great Britain voting Leave. (This is likely due to the uneven distribution of Remain voters, who tended to cluster in large cities, while Leave voters were more evenly spread.)

According to these estimates, around 75% of constituencies that were won by the Conservatives in the 2017 general election voted to Leave, while around 61% of Labour constituencies voted to Leave. All seats won by the Scottish National Party and the Green Party, and a majority of the seats won by the Liberal Democrats and Plaid Cymru, voted to Remain.''

[tomtom]

Its interesting whats happening in the media..

I think what we are seeing are the (hard) Brexit and Remain camps finally being able to unify over one thing (sink Mays deal) and this voice is dominating the narrative. its also a seductive one for the media as it leads to potential leadership races/elections/referendums etc..

But is the deal actually that bad compared to what it could have been?? It would be good if someone - somewhere in the press could compare Mays deal to the Norway or Canada model for example?

Like Pete, I have a (begrudging) respect for May - I think she's managed to do the best she could given the craziness of her own party, and the idiocy of the red lines (she imposed to keep the crazies happy)....