[TobyD]

A concise and decently written analysis of yesterday's events.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47396530

[TobyD]

Quick one.
Has anybody come across anyone, still arguing that Brexit will be of net benefit to the nation and can you link to it?

Yes, the Spectator regularly publishes pieces which argue this. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/03/no-deal-no-problem/

To be fair to it as a publication it also publishes passionate remainers such as Matthew Paris.

I have just read this, its an excellent point: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/mar/03/as-immigration-from-outside-europe-rises-hucksters-foment-racial-hatred

[Oldmanmatt]

I’d read Abbot’s piece.

Honestly, I thought it a joke.

As in, really, a joke. I don’t believe, he actually believed, what he claimed to believe...

Yeah, I think Cohen’s ditty is on the money.

[seankenny]

Your regular reminder that Brexit is an authoritarian's game, and if you're not an authoritarian but voted for it, you've been had.

https://twitter.com/STVNews/status/1102650703909187585

[petejh]

Said the preacher to the congregation of the converted.

[seankenny]

Said the preacher to the congregation of the converted.

I'm all for free movement of people - but with *some* more control

We've had a system which let people live their lives with less government oversight but a key part of Brexit was the desire for greater control. You got what you wanted!

[petejh]

I'm not sure to what you're referring - I don't take much on twitter at face value. As things currently stand in the negotiations/non-negotiations I'm not sure what 'I've got'!

[seankenny]

I'm not sure to what you're referring - I don't take much on twitter at face value. As things currently stand in the negotiations/non-negotiations I'm not sure what 'I've got'!

I don't know, you could always just follow the link and see what it's all about. Or not follow the link to avoid cognitive dissonance.

[petejh]

I did click it and saw something about a Scottish lady. I didn't get much further. Nothing to do with cognitive dissonance - or I wouldn't engage on here. I simply don't have time to read twitter links.

[Oldmanmatt]

I did click it and saw something about a Scottish lady. I didn't get much further. Nothing to do with cognitive dissonance - or I wouldn't engage on here. I simply don't have time to read twitter links.

Except, apparently, she isn’t a Scottish Lady and that has become a problem...

[Oldmanmatt]

Actually, here’s a more interesting link, on a related theme...
https://www.smbc-comics.com/comic/on-the-island

[petejh]

I've just read through the story linked and I don't understand what your point is Sean:

1. EU national who lives in the UK, but doesn't have a UK passport, asked to 'register' once the UK is no longer an EU member state.
2. Once registered, they'll be able to remain living in the UK with full resident's rights.

Err? I'd be more surprised if they didn't have to register?

I lived in Canada for 4 years, without residency. If I'd wanted to live there any longer I would have had to go through the residency process - which I did (long story - it took me 2 years to get it, cost months of my time and much money, and I then didn't go back). The Candaian immigration system makes this UK 'registering' fade into nothing in terms of bureaucracy. If you think the UK does petty bureaucracy well, then try Canadian immigration - 'dire on every level'^TM!

[tomtom]

Er - isn’t the point that people came to the UK from Europe because they were treated as equal to UK citizens.

Now this will be retracted and they have to register to stay and may have reduced rights (we don’t know to what extent yet)

When you moved to Canada you (presumably) knew that you would not have the same rights as a Canadian citizen and would therefore at some point have to apply to do so.

[petejh]

I still don’t understand what you’d expect a nation to do in these unprecedented circumstances?
We’re leaving the EU. Those people who moved here as EU citizens therefore won’t be living in an EU state. No doubt they couldn’t have foreseen that when they moved. But also no doubt that the situation has changed.

[seankenny]

My point is that people have been able to move about as they liked, free of government interference in their lives (or with very minimal interference). Now we're moving to a more authoritarian system and frankly that's quite upsetting for a lot of people - including those who suddenly don't understand why they should have to "register" to stay in their own homes. But that's what happens when you get authoritarian - old ladies get upset to fulfill your political fantasies.

Naturally, you may be an authoritarian personality and love all this stuff.

[seankenny]

2. Once registered, they'll be able to remain living in the UK with full resident's rights.

Loving the confidence here.

[Johnny Brown]

I still don’t understand what you’d expect a nation to do in these unprecedented circumstances?
We’re leaving the EU. Those people who moved here as EU citizens therefore won’t be living in an EU state. No doubt they couldn’t have foreseen that when they moved. But also no doubt that the situation has changed.

And of course Leave promised it wouldn't happen. Project fear wasn't it?

[petejh]

My point is that people have been able to move about as they liked, free of government interference in their lives (or with very minimal interference). Now we're moving to a more authoritarian system and frankly that's quite upsetting for a lot of people - including those who suddenly don't understand why they should have to "register" to stay in their own homes. But that's what happens when you get authoritarian - old ladies get upset to fulfill your political fantasies.

Naturally, you may be an authoritarian personality and love all this stuff.

Naturally I may be an authoritarian personality?

Priceless 

Lala land.

Now excuse me while I pop out to intimidate somebody I deem lesser...

[petejh]

JB - isn't the point of registering that their status won't change?

[Yossarian]

old ladies get upset to fulfill your political fantasises

TBF, it was a load of upset old ladies (and men) fulfilling their political fantasies which got us into this mess...

[tomtom]

I don't know if you speak to many EU citizens who live in the UK Pete.

I do - I have many who are colleagues and some who are neighbours.

All have expressed disquiet and many feel torn - between wanting to leave as they now feel unwelcome, yet having now having family, friends and TBH their whole life now based here in the UK.

This has done the rounds on FB today - but its probably a decent summary of many of the feelings I've collectively heard.

Imagine moving to a country because you can and have the right to. Fall in love with country - and a person. You put down roots. Add Marmite to the shopping basket. Your kids have different accents to yours, but you embrace life in a country you’ve chosen.

You start a business. Invest money and energy. The roots become firmer. Yorkshire Puddings.

The Brexit vote happens. You don’t get a say: you’re an immigrant. It feels unfair, but that’s how it is. A divide created. People vote ‘NO’ to a question nobody understands.

Later a guy calls you ‘fucking foreigner’ on the streets of London. You tell yourself it’s maybe because Iceland just beat England at football, but your stomach turns: Things change.

Months pass. News start referring to EU citizens as ‘EU migrants’. You wonder for what purpose other than drive divide.

Over 1000 days dwindle with no answers, endless uncertainty. Friends start to leave the UK. Stress strangles.

The worry about business set in. Things are going well but you can’t plan because nobody’s making decisions, just power struggles. It becomes harder to hire people. The Leave Lobby shouts: “Nonsense; everything is FINE”. Like a silent earthquake, we’re all shaking, falling through the cracks, drinking tea, carrying on. You lay awake wondering what to do, for the children’s sake.

You see, after 20+ years, 2 kids and a 30-people business, it’s not just a matter of saying ‘I’m off’. Firstly, that’s just not how you do things, it’s also not feasible. You can’t rip your British-esque children out of school without it changing their lives. You don’t just give up. You can’t bring yourself to consider leaving - because you love your life. You feel (almost) British.

We have to register to apply to be allowed to stay. We have to ‘prepare for Brexit’ but nobody has told us how. Recession is inevitable (predictions are 1:8 food businesses will suffer irreversibly). We make plans to stay, ride out the storm because we love London. But we’re breaking. It’s enough.

Tell me that ‘Well, at least you can stay!’ and expect me to act grateful. I’m not. Brexit has cut me up – and I’m just one soul of 3,5million EU citizens here.

[petejh]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make TT?

I've read and heard very similar stories. I don't gain any pleasure from hearing them. But what is your point, beyond 'you don't agree with brexit'.

[andy popp]

The point I would take is that the decision has very real negative consequences for real lives, consequences that were barely given any thought in advance and to which barely any more thought has been devoted to since. Consequences that are now simply to be ignored?

In a mirror image, one of my English friends was delighted to become Dutch today.

[TobyD]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make TT?
I've read and heard very similar stories. I don't gain any pleasure from hearing them. But what is your point, beyond 'you don't agree with brexit'.

The main thing I take from the situation where many EU nationals find that the UK has become an uncomfortable place for them and leave, is that it will further de skill and deplete the NHS. Healthcare professional training in Western Europe is of an exceptionally high standard, and in some parts of the world, it isn't quite as good. I know which I'd rather be working with / treated by.

[Johnny Brown]

JB - isn't the point of registering that their status won't change?

Nothing has changed! Nothing has changed!