[Oldmanmatt]

Your definition.of bullying seems pretty narrow to me, do people become less emotionally vulnerable because they have found success, or are well educated?

Something can be hurtful, hateful, spiteful, mean, etc. and not be bullying.  Bullying comes from a position of power over another and generally has an intended outcome.  Some people are assholes and mean, but that doesn't automatically turn them into bullies.

Whilst your definition is semantically correct etc, I would posit that this situation would be defined as bullying.
Just as “Trolling” is in many other situations.

With regards to the imbalance of power, in this instance Kinder allegedly attempted to use anonymity to launch his attacks, thus creating an imbalance and gaining the upper hand.
(Think: Sniper in an Aerie on a tall building, in a forest of tall buildings, with a suppressed weapon and a well marked, static, large target).
Ergo, he thought he was in a position of power (unassailable, if you will).
The fact that he was mistaken in his power calculations and that his target actually had a higher caliber weapon, is a matter of incompetence, rather than lack of intent.

Rather than a deadly sniper, he turned out to be an idiot in a wig, dark glasses and a false nose; who decided to shove his finger up a She-Wolfs arse.
To paraphrase the idiom, if you’re going to shove your finger up a She-wolf’s rectum, you better have a plan to deal with it’s teeth.

[mrjonathanr]

The power comes from the fact that Sasha has weaknesses - eating disorder and is a women who has a body ideal that she is expected to conform to.

This. ~4% mortality rate for these illnesses. I don't know what JK did/didn't do exactly, that's not my point. Rather that these are serious problems and mockery really isn't cool here.

[Johnny Brown]

Is this common knowledge that she has an eating disorder or just supposition?

[abarro81]

She did a trainingbeta interview recently, transcript here: https://www.trainingbeta.com/media/sasha-digiulian/

She didn't directly say she'd had an eating disorder but kind of alluded to it:

"I had a really strict relationship with my caloric intake and my caloric output. I don’t think it was necessarily a healthy weight. I think that I put a lot of emphasis on the balance of how much I weighed and what my performance would come out of that that definitely strained some relationships even that I had in my life.
[...]
Unfortunately, I think that what I went through is not uncommon.
[...]
I think my body was deprived of having more calories than it needed. It wasn’t necessarily at a healthy weight."

She goes on to allude to the fact that it made her climb harder though!

I tend to dislike Abel's articles, and I can't say that one changed my mind. I've had two disagreements with her on FB before... One about abortion, where although we essentially were on the same side she couldn't seem to accept that some people genuinely thought abortion was morally wrong, and that it was in fact all about men keeping women down (I disagreed). Another one where one of her crew/followers was moaning about getting shit from male climbers on instagram when she posted stuff like "did problem X (V9) on the Moonboard today" with a video where she's fully rinsing a toe-hook on the side of the board. Whilst I'm all for cheating, obviously, I pointed out that maybe if she didn't put the name and grade of the problem she wasn't climbing in the post she'd get less shit, but got shouted down for mansplaining... Suffice to say my opinion of her opinion is not high.

[highrepute]

Is this common knowledge that she has an eating disorder or just supposition?

I recall discussing with this someone so perhaps it's become warped in my mind to something that is common knowledge  probably a bit of white male privilege making me assume it is true. Saying she an awareness of weight and body image might be more fair.

I done a google and came up with this

I remember reading posts about me in online forums speculating that I was anorexic and attributing my success in climbing to my light weight. My perception of myself changed then. I started paying much more attention to my diet, how to maintain a youthful body frame, and became convinced that in order to climb hard, I needed to stay at a certain weight. This meant strictly watching my caloric intake and exercising excessively or feeling guilty, for instance, after indulging.

EDIT: I see Alex has re-enforced my original supposition. Perhaps it was him I had the conversation with.

[abarro81]

At the time everyone was saying she was anorexic, though obviously she said she wasn't. I recall P-Rob (and others?) chiming in to back her up and say she didn't have an issue. It's a weird one with climbers, because there are a stack of climbers who restrict calories, have unhealthy relationships with food, feel guilty after indulging etc but don't have disorders, and then there are a stack who have proper issues, and telling who's who without knowing them reasonably well is probably quite hard...

That other quote is kinda interesting, as it implies she thinks she didn't have an issue at the point where lots of people did, but that she did get issues after that, because of people thinking she had an issue...

[petejh]

Going off that view of perceived power-imbalance, John Dunne was fucking eviscerated by body-shaming bullies. John Redhead was torn apart by mental illness shaming bullies. Fiend is on a hiding to nothing.
I don't buy all the way into the current culture of finding victimisation under every upturned male (or female) Sure the male-female power dynamic warrants challenging but the zeitgeist today is classic pendulum swinging too far if it's classic anything.

[petejh]

Also, the guidebook authors thing cracked me up. We all know they're <0.01 % of the climbing population, and on the lunatic keeno fringe. Looking at you, Pete. White male privilege is good for something: in this case building handrails into the Diamond and rertobolting chossy Welsh sea cliffs. You utter bigot.

 
It's all conquest, subduing wild beauty and drilling holes.

[Oldmanmatt]

The power comes from the fact that Sasha has weaknesses - eating disorder and is a women who has a body ideal that she is expected to conform to. Joe has the power in that he has chosen to exploit these weaknesses by making critical posts about Sasha's appearance. This is classic "body shaming" and I think many would consider it bullying. It sounds like it's gone on for some time (through snapchat and instagram) which adds to the sense that it is bullying and not bants.

Going off that view of perceived power-imbalance, John Dunne was fucking eviscerated by body-shaming bullies. John Redhead was torn apart by mental illness shaming bullies. Fiend is on a hiding to nothing.
I don't buy all the way into the current culture of finding victimisation under every upturned male (or female) Sure the male-female power dynamic warrants challenging but the zeitgeist today is classic pendulum swinging too far if it's classic anything.

Yep, there’s always someone trying to hijack a movement for their own benefit.
It’s hard to sort the wheat from the chaff. The instant resort to the “Mansplaining!” cry seems to be a carbon copy of the very behaviour it was meant to highlight.
Apparently, because misogyny exists, all males are incapable of recognising it or having an opinion on it.
No irony in that, of course.
 

[ghisino]

It's a weird one with climbers, because there are a stack of climbers who restrict calories, have unhealthy relationships with food, feel guilty after indulging etc but don't have disorders, and then there are a stack who have proper issues, and telling who's who without knowing them reasonably well is probably quite hard...

and also without having a qualified idea of what qualifies as eating disorder and what doesn't. As in other sports where weight is relevant, there are certainly many "borderline" cases where it is hard to tell if one has a serious issue or not.

[Will Hunt]

I believe the definition of a disorder is that it has a negative impact upon your health or your day-to-day life. To use the example that was given to me, people often say "I'm a little bit OCD". People who say this do not have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, because you cannot have a little bit of a disorder - it either has a negative effect on your life or it doesn't.
I often get halfway down the path of my house and wonder whether I locked the door. I go back and check. This happens on more mornings than I'd care to admit. It doesn't cause me a problem, because once I've checked, I get on with leaving the house. If I had to go back to the door of the house 20 times before finally getting in the car, then drove halfway to work and then turned around to check once more, and was thus always late for work, I would have OCD.

So in this talk about eating disorders, if you're saying that the climber(s) in question are driving themselves into ill health, then this sounds very much like a disorder. I suppose that if they do it for a short period to achieve a particular goal, and then easily fall back to normal eating habits without feeling undue guilt and anxiety then this wouldn't be a disorder because there would be limited physiological and mental health problems arising from a short term drop in weight that was geared towards a particular goal (depending on the amount of weight they felt they needed to lose).

It sounds like Sasha's eating was affected to the point of it being detrimental to her health and that it went on for a prolonged period. This was probably causing her anxiety around what she was eating, to the point where it might have caused mental ill health.

Doctor Will's diagnosis: It is likely that she had an eating disorder.

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor. I went on a two day mental health first aid course in February. Naturally this makes me an expert.



While I'm here. The definition of bullying and whether Joe's behaviour fits it is irrelevant to this discussion. The evidence we have is that he gave her grief over a period of time, it caused her distress, she asked him to stop, he didn't. I think that's all you need to know to decide he was out of order. I enjoy piss-taking as much, and perhaps more than, the next person, but if I thought that my actions were actually causing somebody distress then I would stop.

[Oldmanmatt]

At the risk of terminal trajectory digression, but as an example of poorly judged and inappropriately inserted identity politics:

https://wokesloth.com/white-privilege-yale-facebook-thread/stefanie/

Between the “Right on!” brigade and the very charming “Alt-right” and their black and white view of this, actually, rather drab grey blurry world; you’d be lucky to reach a consensus on how many fingers I’m holding up, as I flip both sets of arseholes the bird.

In the end, it’s all about thresholds and how clearly they’ve been crossed, rather than the exact point of crossing.

From the available information on this one, I’d say he ducked under the barrier and was standing square in the middle of the tracks as 10:03 Righteous Indignation Express came through the crossing at the speed of a social media meteor. The clanging bells, flashing yellow beacons and substantial barriers he passed on the way, negate much sympathy.

[tommytwotone]

Or, as the great philosopher Lil Jon, alumni of A-Town University once wrote, "don't start no shit - there won't be no shit".

[Rocksteady]

Or, as the great philosopher Lil Jon, alumni of A-Town University once wrote, "don't start no shit - there won't be no shit".

Very similar to what RZA et al learned at the Wu-Tang Academy - "if you want beef then bring da ruckus"

[JohnM]

As my Italian friend said..."Rape culture? Most climbers hardly have sex!"

[Bonjoy]

Jesus! Just read that article. Thought this was a particularly interesting paragraph/perspective!!

"Rock climbing is also a pursuit that relies heavily on things like privilege and access to indigenous land. It tends to glorify a colonialist attitude and conquering things. It promotes the shirking of responsibility. And just like society at large, this community actively promotes misogyny, white supremacy, ableism, rape culture, homophobia, transphobia, body shaming, and the erasure of native narratives."

If that is what she thinks, why does she actually climb?

That's some pretty objectionable generalisation, especially given the size, spread and diversity of the climbing world. Pretty much a textbook example of bigotry and prejudice in fact. Good job I'm in my safe space today.

[lagerstarfish]

I don't know which one I should get -  an Instagram account or a Facebook account.

[webbo]

Go for the one with the toy surprise.

[jwi]

Do you like to pretend you're happy (fb) or insufferable (insta)?

[lagerstarfish]

you're saying stick with Twitter, yeah?

[Teaboy]

you're saying stick with Twitter, yeah?

Yeah, if it's just bullying you are after defo. It's very route one, no secret accounts or nothing.

[ducko]

Dont think SG would enjoy a day at the crag with myself and UncleDoyle..

[36chambers]

Dont think SG would enjoy a day at the crag with myself and UncleDoyle..

Don't think many people would.. 

[Sasquatch]

https://www.instagram.com/p/Biw99h2lnpI/?hl=en&taken-by=joekinder