[gme]

In these anylitical times I have started looking at my climbing more trying to work out the physiology of what I am doing.
I have noticed I have problems keeping my elbows down when pulling on steep boards. This is worse when the holds get smaller and the locks get lower. 
Is this just a case of getting fingers stronger or is it potentially something else in the chain.
Tried google but just get links to elbow injuries.

[teestub]

Sounds potentially like it could be a shoulder stability issue, is your scapula moving up and out and that’s what's causing your elbow to rise?

[Ru]

Fingers (and hand). Chickenwinging is a way of being able to keep the same downwards force through a hold with straighter fingers and less muscular force. That's why you do it when the holds get smaller (harder to keep the same bend in you fingers as the leverage increases) and when the locks get lower (you need to increase the bend in your fingers as the lock gets lower because your wrist doesn't bend back far enough).

[gme]

Thanks Ru. I had always thought it was a finger strength issue as i dont have a problem on bigger holds. I still think there might be something else going on though and will maybe speak to one of the coachy types when i see them.
My joints on my fingers are starting to be pretty fucked now and not sure i will be able to just keep getting them stronger at 50 so looking to improve things in the bits of my body i haven't trained hard for the last 30 years.

[andy_e]

This is something I've often wondered about. If chicken-winging is a stronger position, why don't we end up doing it more often, only once we're tired?

[Ru]

 It's not a stronger position, it just gives you a bit of mechanical advantage for your fingers on certain holds. It puts your elbow and shoulder in a weak and injury prone position and it gives a bad hand position for holds where you need to use your thumb or keep your wrist low.

[jwi]

Look at any video of someone with really weak fingers for their grade bouldering. You can always tell that they are really weak in the fingers by how their elbows move up and how they roll the shoulders to move into advantageous positions for the fingers, making it very difficult for them to do long, efficient moves – often forcing them (=me) to use bad intermediates and weird beta.

[duncan]

Interesting question. It's so common I'm surprised the answer is not more well known. I think Ru has it. Here’s a pinch of physiology: length-tension curve. Muscles can generate greatest tension when they are in their medium length.

Chicken winging happens because when the long finger flexors are in a shortened position when hanging on to a hold. As they get tired, they have to lengthen to mid range to best generate tension. The fingers can’t extend (aka letting go) so the wrist has to extend. Extending the wrist forces the elbows up and out.

Is chicken-winging more prevalent crimping rather than open-handing? This explanation suggests it should be.

[gme]

In my case it’s definately more prevalent when crimping.
Looks like I best keep on with the deadhangs.

[cheque]

I've handed out some wad points as reading this thread has been a bit of a eureka moment for me.

[tomtom]

you've all been cooped up for too long

[andy_e]

Can someone keep me a breast of the best way to deal with chicken wings?

[tomtom]

Can someone keep me a breast of the best way to deal with chicken wings?

You need to first take stock of your crimping situation...

[Yossarian]

Can someone keep me a breast of the best way to deal with chicken wings?

You need to first take stock of your crimping situation...

This is a poultry excuse for a thread...

[tomtom]

Can someone keep me a breast of the best way to deal with chicken wings?

You need to first take stock of your crimping situation...

This is a poultry excuse for a thread...

well, the thread is free to range...

[Murph]

Horst explains here what's going on in the forearm while chickenwinging (which he calls the batwing effect).

https://youtu.be/eiOp3hxJVkw?t=161

Getting back on topic...he also also outlines a battery of recouperation exercises.

[andy_e]

I think you'll find recooperation is the eggsact term.