[shark]

As an employee it wouldn't be right for me to get into a discussion about some of the things quoted that I believe to be misrepresentations, but I will chime in on this one - I climbed with the CEO last week.

Sycophant.

Want to borrow my ladder?

[danm]

As an employee it wouldn't be right for me to get into a discussion about some of the things quoted that I believe to be misrepresentations, but I will chime in on this one - I climbed with the CEO last week.

Sycophant.

Want to borrow my ladder?

Only if it gets me up West Side Story! We had a team trip out where I introduced our new EDI Manager to trad, a few others joined included the CEO. Our EDI person started indoor bouldering when he took up his post and was instantly hooked by it, but doing a trad climb blew him away. To quote him "I think that might be the coolest thing I've ever done".

[Fultonius]

As a linked aside, anyone else have an issue on their phone where if they try to open any BMC website links (was just lookin up the reciprocal discount card for huts), it opens the RAD app? PITA.

[tk421a]

As a linked aside, anyone else have an issue on their phone where if they try to open any BMC website links (was just lookin up the reciprocal discount card for huts), it opens the RAD app? PITA.

No, but AAC membership is the same as the reciprocal rights card and gets you the rights + insurance etc.

[bolehillbilly]

As a linked aside, anyone else have an issue on their phone where if they try to open any BMC website links (was just lookin up the reciprocal discount card for huts), it opens the RAD app? PITA.

Yes, the same for me. I thought it had fixed but turns out I'd deleted the RAD app and not reinstalled it.  Still happening now reinstalled. I'll try and work out who at BMC is best to message about this.

[Bonjoy]

I have had several reports about issues with the RAD app being out of sync with the web version. I'm really sorry about these. I've passed on to IT, but it's not something I have the skills or permissions to correct myself.
Any technical probs with the RAD can be sent to me and I'll pass on.

[steveri]

On the balance of funding I’d liken it to paying tax, which as we know is a privilege and the entrance fee for living in a civilised society.

We don’t get to hypothecate the bits we want to spend money on, same as people without kids or in perfect health shouldn’t moan about funding schools or the NHS. But we do get to question the people that make those decisions. And I’d prefer a different balance.

I have only a vague interest in competition climbing, though if it gives us a Shauna or a Will at the end of it, that’s a nice by product. I happily pay the membership for access work, pure gold. Just as I’d pay the BBC licence fee for 10% of their output on Rs 3,4,6 and Beeb 4 and others.

The governance needs simplifying and we need more Jons, not less. It bothers me that ‘non climbers’ hold so much sway, and I’d kinda include people who spend 95% of their time indoors in that.

[edshakey]

As a linked aside, anyone else have an issue on their phone where if they try to open any BMC website links (was just lookin up the reciprocal discount card for huts), it opens the RAD app? PITA.

Yes, the same for me. I thought it had fixed but turns out I'd deleted the RAD app and not reinstalled it.  Still happening now reinstalled. I'll try and work out who at BMC is best to message about this.

Think this is a phone thing not a BMC thing? I get prompted Chrome or RAD when I open the app, and I click chrome. Maybe you clicked RAD "always" once and now it just keeps doing it?

Not sure what the fix is, but fairly sure it's not for the RAD app to fix?

[remus]

Think this is a phone thing not a BMC thing? I get prompted Chrome or RAD when I open the app, and I click chrome. Maybe you clicked RAD "always" once and now it just keeps doing it?

Not sure what the fix is, but fairly sure it's not for the RAD app to fix?

When you publish an app there's you can configure it in combination with a website you own to open certain links. In essence, the app says "I know how to open links like https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=1589", and you upload a special file to your website to say "I know about the BMC app, if it wants to ope links like https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=1589 then you can let it".

I assume somewhere along the line the RAD app/BMC website has been misconfigured, so instead of just intercepting RAD links it's intercepting all links to the BMC website.

ed: just done a little digging and it looks like the website side is configured correctly, so I think the problem is in the app.

[edshakey]

Ah I stand corrected, cheers Remus

[Teaboy]

Would be interested to know how many keen outdoor boulderers/ general climbers on here aren't members. Anecdotally I know of a lot of people who climb a lot outside, care about access but aren't BMC members.

I had been a full member for over 20 years, previously when I’ve had membership via a club I’ve continued to pay full individual membership as I think it’s important to support the access work, however, last year I cancelled my individual membership in a fit of pique (I’m still a member through CC but that really only covers the cost of my membership benefits and contributes very little to other BMC activities). This wasn’t something I did lightly but followed a few discussions on UKC where it was becoming apparent competition climbing was becoming a cuckoo in the nest and people representing the BMC were obfuscating the the extent of this. Specifically
1. A lot of the funding for comps is linked to Olympic success, what happens if no one qualifies? Is the BMC left with a comp organisation that it can’t wind down quickly enough and is forced to fund?
2. In order to qualify for UK Sport funding the BMC has to contribute a certain amount. I imagine Sport UK aren’t too bothered about the distinction between combined and speed, are the BMC committing to increased funding for speed climbing?
3. On other threads I was repeatedly told that the CCPG was working on Team GB being entirely self funded. The CCPG has not reported for over two years.
4. “It’s what the membership want”, this might be true but I don’t think the membership realise how much it’s costing them. If someone as well connected as Northern Yob is unaware what about everyone else? Not helped by a certain amount of chicanery on UKC threads like throwing Heritage in with Access funding, claiming volunteer time and charity money as BMC contribution (I appreciate it is managed by the BMC).
5. The perception from some at the BMC that there was more than enough for A&C and that additional funds were not required and the example used to illustrate this was how well the Kilnsey parking issue was resolved but that wasn’t my recollection at all.
6. I used to think talk of over reach by the BMC was nonsense but skimo is now under the umbrella of GB Climbing. C’mon!
I still think the BMC is a wonderful organisation and I fully intended to mitigate my silent and wholly pointless protest by contributing to the Access and Conservation Trust but have to fess up that I haven’t. I also love comps I just think it absorbs too much from the BMC as it’s not just the direct funding but a significant proportion of all other budgets like HR, facilities, IT, staff costs, pensions etc.

[duncan]

From Dave Turnbull, currently BMC Head of Access, Conservation & Environmental Sustainability, on facebook (after some bad health news).

"Meanwhile in planet BMC, later the same day the whole of the Access and Conservation Team, plus the Marketing & Comms staff received ‘risk of redundancy’ letters from the CEO. Seems the BMC is in free fall at the moment having set over ambitious membership growth targets resulting in a projected year end deficit of minus £275k. One of the access team has already been handed his notice but they’re still looking for at least one more scalp. At one time this was seen as the most important thing the BMC did but it seems not now. Pity really. It’ll be interesting to see what the membership thinks. Staff morale is rock bottom as you might imagine."

[galpinos]

To save typing, this is what I put on Simon's indentikit thread on UKC:

Christ alive! This thread reminds me of the current Sun story about a certain BBC presenter, as the facts come out it’s still potentially bad, but nothing like the initial scandal. Simon appears to be playing the role of Victoria Newton with the BMC mimicking the BBC by making no official statement and fuelling the fire of speculation.

On the face of it, this seems very disappointing. I was unsure about the way the BMC set up GB Climbing but still think having the NRB and the NGB under the same umbrella benefits both roles, but with maybe the financial separation many of us were keen to see intially.

I am, as ever, disappointed in the BMC Comms side of this. All I have to go on is screenshots in Facebook groups and hearsay on here, with numbers and stories that seem somewhat inconsistent. Why they let the rumour mill run away like this is beyond me, they must have seen this coming? Hopefully the promised “official statement” will give us the “other side of the story”.

On a personal note, I will continue to be a member, continue to volunteer and continue to attempt to influence and affect change from “inside the tent”.

My second to last paragraph is strengthened by Duncan's post. Dave is quoting figures (£275k deficit) that are different to Carl's (142k without "course corrections". Simon is saying two gone from access and more scalps being sort, Dave says one person has handed in their notice and believe there is another being sort. Who knows what is correct?

[steveri]

Proper disappointing but maybe not Defcon 1 crisis. The comps tail should not be wagging the access dog.

If you think of a funnel, few people compete, fewer still at the top level. People entering a local bouldering league have no need for a BMC involvement. The fat end of the funnel is All Climbers, Everywhere. These are the people that need access, insurance, safety, etc. And it feels like plenty of the hard yards are being done at local level, by keen volunteers. They NEED the backup of paid staff with good legislative knowledge, negotiation skills, contacts and all that. And if these are the people being put to the sword it's hugely disappointing. And if they survive, it's still massively undermining to go through this 'consultation phase'.

The organisation is are poor at reporting back and communicating big picture with the great unwashed. I don't mean the marketing comms, which are light but good at what they do. None of this latest financial hole will have been a surprise at AGM time, but I bet it wasn't discussed properly (I wasn't there). Good luck to the people having their chairs removed when the music stops.

[duncan]

As an employee it wouldn't be right for me to get into a discussion about some of the things quoted that I believe to be misrepresentations, but I will chime in on this one - I climbed with the CEO last week. This non-climber trope is wheeled out regularly, use your own judgement to consider why.

Dan, thank you for putting me right. I was going on his biog. on the BMC website where he described himself as a hillwalker. And good luck at what sounds like a difficult time.
 
Ironically perhaps, I’m very much in favour of organisations having managers chosen primarily for their effectiveness as managers. I’ve experienced enough bad management from brilliant people to know a good manager requires different skills than a good engineer, teacher, doctor or climber. I don’t expect to see the BMC CEO every time I visit Rhoscolyn (or so it seemed with Dave Turnbull!). I do expect professional managers to manage professionally and, in a membership organisation, to broadly follow the priorities set by the membership that have been consistent over decades despite the many changes within climbing.

From the information we outsiders have currently, senior management are neither effective nor focusing on membership priorities. Communication from the BMC high-ups - a crucial part of effective management especially when concerns arise - has been notable by its absence.

Dates of the next BMC area meetings. https://www.thebmc.co.uk/upcoming-bmc-area-meetings
 If you are a member and you are not happy about how the BMC is being run or its direction of travel, raising your concerns at them will probably have more of an effect than posting on forums and other social media.

[abarro81]

Simon is saying two gone from access and more scalps being sort, Dave says one person has handed in their notice and believe there is another being sort. Who knows what is correct?

Just on this - Dave says one has been handed their notice, not has handed in their notice. So the gap between the two statements is not that wide

[galpinos]

Just on this - Dave says one has been handed their notice, not has handed in their notice. So the gap between the two statements is not that wide

You are right, I misread that. As a standalone statement, the gap is not that wide, it was more in every post of Simon's the worst case/most hyperbolic poistion is taken. I don't think this is helpful. Obviously the BMC could have got ahead of this by

1. Actually writing a statement pre redundancy letters going out as access will always be contentious when cutting back, it is everyone's priority!

2. When the board were notified last Thursday that the rumour mill had started turning they should be able to get a statement out. The fact that six days latter we only have a wall of silence that has allowed those rumours to spread and evolve ("The whole of the access team is getting laid off!)

Again, cross posting with UKC but my position is:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the BMC here, despite the fact I am a member, do volunteer, and think they are an essential force for good I am pissed off with them and want them to get their act together.

[Dingdong]

I guess we know why they declined to buy kilnsey now 

[shark]

The figures can be cut in many ways but I can’t account for Karl’s £160k vs Dave’s £275k. Perhaps the situation had worsened from when Karl was informed and the Access team notified? Perhaps Karl was using the post cost cutting figure? I’ve asked him on BMC Watch. 

My understanding is that someone working with Land Management Trust left and that Inigo Atkin Fundraising and Campaigns Officer who is responsible for Mend Our Mountains hadn’t had their contract renewed. They are apparently looking for one more reduction on the Access Team according to Dave and another source.

[T_B]

It’s a projection. I appreciate that doesn’t account for quite a sizeable difference but it comes down to approximately 3500 memberships and we’re in July. Sure they’ll have a sales history but they could lay off loads of staff or put them to task chasing lapsed members. I’ve just re-joined based on this thread. I’d start with everyone who previously took out insurance but have gone elsewhere. Again, what are you selling if you’ve laid off the Access staff.

[T_B]

And get rid of the discounting the first year of membership. You want lifelong members. Fair, transparent pricing. You’re not selling Broadband. Never understood why they do that.

[shark]

And get rid of the discounting the first year of membership. You want lifelong members. Fair, transparent pricing. You’re not selling Broadband. Never understood why they do that.

It was the single most effective marketing initiative they ever did. It got people in the loop then the comms promoted all the good works the BMC does so they don’t cancel the direct debit which most forget anyway till it’s too late

[T_B]

I’d be pretty interested to see that journey from 1st year of (discounted) membership and how many were retained in years 2, 3 etc.

[danm]

Think this is a phone thing not a BMC thing? I get prompted Chrome or RAD when I open the app, and I click chrome. Maybe you clicked RAD "always" once and now it just keeps doing it?

Not sure what the fix is, but fairly sure it's not for the RAD app to fix?

When you publish an app there's you can configure it in combination with a website you own to open certain links. In essence, the app says "I know how to open links like https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=1589", and you upload a special file to your website to say "I know about the BMC app, if it wants to ope links like https://www.thebmc.co.uk/modules/RAD/View.aspx?id=1589 then you can let it".

I assume somewhere along the line the RAD app/BMC website has been misconfigured, so instead of just intercepting RAD links it's intercepting all links to the BMC website.

ed: just done a little digging and it looks like the website side is configured correctly, so I think the problem is in the app.

The IT team are aware, and looking into this, but apparently to begin with they were unable to replicate the fault and therefore track the problem and fix it. They are having another try though!

[remus]

The IT team are aware, and looking into this, but apparently to begin with they were unable to replicate the fault and therefore track the problem and fix it. They are having another try though!

Pass on my thanks Dan. Feel free to put them in touch with me if they need someone to beta test too.