[Andy B]

I'll have a look at the photo links when I get in from work today.

[Will Hunt]

It's quite apt that this thread has been bumped now. I've spoken to a couple of people in the past year about a Kilnsey bouldering topo. There was word that Dan Turner was producing one, but I'm not sure if anything came of this. When at the crag on Monday night I spoke to a different local activist who was bouldering there. This local said that he had been working on a topo and reckons there's something like 40-50 eliminates and problems along the left end of the crag.

My interest here is that I offered to host these topos on the Unknown Stones website. This prompted an interesting conversation with Monday night's local. His argument was that, although he's toyed with the idea of putting the topo out there, he doesn't want to deal with the flack that he thinks it will attract from the local sport climbing scene.
People have commented that the crag's parking is busy enough as it is, and an influx of boulderers to the crag, climbing all over the bottom of the sport routes, would not be welcome.

I can certainly see the argument here, bearing in mind that if a definitive Kilnsey bouldering topo was published it would instantly become the most viable venue in Yorkshire for summertime bouldering. The masses would descend upon it. The Vimeo videos would become rife. Having said all that, it is a shame that the bouldering here (which isn't those few problems documented in Vimeo vids) is seen to be the preserve of a few well connected people on the scene and nobody else.

Do people have thoughts on this? My thoughts are that a definitive topo shouldn't be made widely available, on the basis that most of the main lines are fairly obvious and if you're interested in eliminates then the locals are generally happy to show you what to do. Those who really want to climb here are probably going to figure it out.

[36chambers]

I can certainly see the argument here, bearing in mind that if a definitive Kilnsey bouldering topo was published it would instantly become the most viable venue in Yorkshire for summertime bouldering. The masses would descend upon it. The Vimeo videos would become rife.

This is pure FUD by the way.

People have commented that the crag's parking is busy enough as it is

While we're at it, we should quietly ask Ben Moon to stop trying Northern Light as, if he succeeds, the inevitable wave of news that follows will have a significant effect on the popularity of crag. Just saying.

[jwi]

If you print it, they will come. The french two-prong attack: under-grade everything and try to stop information from spreading is really working quite well

[Paul B]

People have commented that the crag's parking is busy enough as it is

The parking isn't too busy, people just park without due consideration, although I'm yet to come across anyone that when challenged, hasn't quite happily moved their vehicle. It's worth noting that challenge appears to work a lot better than online articles/ranting/discrete signage.

I don't think it's a good reason not to have a bouldering topo available somewhere.

Will, my opinion still stands regarding a select guide for the area/crag.

[r-man]

A topo would be a good place to emphasise the need to use parking spots further down the road. Topos can be useful for that sort of thing.

[Will Hunt]

I can certainly see the argument here, bearing in mind that if a definitive Kilnsey bouldering topo was published it would instantly become the most viable venue in Yorkshire for summertime bouldering. The masses would descend upon it. The Vimeo videos would become rife.

This is pure FUD by the way.

Not without cause though. Cumbria, the Peak, and Lancashire all have summer limestone bouldering venues and people from Yorkshire do travel there. I go to Anston Stones which is just over an hour from my house. Yorkshire has no well documented limestone bouldering crags. There isn't really a great summer bouldering venue in Yorkshire other than making do at Earl etc.
If a definitive Kilnsey guide becomes publically available then it would instantly make it THE best place to go bouldering in the summer for Yorkshire climbers. It gets lots of shade, it stays dry in the rain, there are LOADS of "new" problems to try in a very popular grade bracket. It would get mobbed. Personally, I don't like the idea of a crag being seen as being "reserved" for one particular group; but could you make this guide publically available without a backlash from the local doggers? I don't think so.

I don't think it's a good reason not to have a bouldering topo available somewhere.

Will, my opinion still stands regarding a select guide for the area/crag.

I'm surprised at this. I thought your objection was based around not wanting to increase traffic at the crag. I don't think a new select guide would increase the number of visitors significantly, just give people who would already be visiting more choice over what guide to use. Opening up the crag to a whole new user group - and making it THE place to go for that user group for half the year - would undoubtedly increase traffic at the crag.

[Will Hunt]

And before anybody goes off the deep end at me, I did make it clear to said activist that if he should change his mind I would publish the topo on US and soak up the flak myself 

[saltbeef]

I don't think there is loads there, there is a load of eliminates. theres about 10 problems, most of which would shut down most of the clown trouser brigade.
The main issue with bouldering at kilnsey is a. the midges and b. you feel like you are seriously missing the point

[Kingy]

I agree, why not publish the topo? Withholding it is elitist in my view. What if you're not in the in crowd and turn up and there are no locals there to show you the moves? There are no issues with boulderers interfering with routers at the Tor, everybody just gets on with it with due consideration to others.

I don't think the Kilnsey bouldering would be sufficiently awesome to attract a huge amount of new people to the crag IMHO. Like others have said, if you're going there, the routes are so good, even the boulderers tie in.

I think there is a case for withholding a topo for somewhere like the unmentionable place near Rubicon where there are genuine concerns for access concerning rare flora being disturbed but at Kilnsey this is not the case. If the concerns re parking are well flagged up then this should ensure new visitors to the crag are informed of potential issues with this.

[SA Chris]

but could you make this guide publically available without a backlash from the local doggers? I don't think so.

Surely they only use the parking after dark?

[turnipturned]

Apologies. I really mean to get around to making one. Slight issue that I have no idea who has done what etc. I feel I could annoy individuals by getting things wrong. So might just make a basic one.

On the argument about parking,that's rubbish. Sport climbers can eat it, it's not there crag and no one is better than anyone else. People need to learn to park, I work with the landowner and he is getting pissed off. Especiallly in the next month during haytime.

[abarro81]

If people are worried about crowds then just make make a top but only let it be distributed by email rather than hosted anywhere. That's happened with plenty of eastern lime spots

[dave]

Just make all the grades massive sandbags, that should keep team yellow strides away.

[Paul B]

Will, basically what Kingy and Turnip have said, given barely anybody boulders there, I don't think there's much risk of honey-potting.

I can't say I'm surprised with the landowner getting a bit fed up. I'm fed up of asking people to move. The BMC were meant to be getting in touch and sorting it out with further signage if required.

[Will Hunt]

Seems like a fairly unanimous agreement that people think a topo could go out without harm. I'll draw these comments to the attention of the author.