Lots of questions to my post - will reply Saturday when I have more time. (My post was probably poorly thought through as quite busy)Probably wrong about the guidebook areas already saturated, however we don't require bmc membership for detailed guidebooks
Talking to Steve Dunning at the Depot a lot of the newcomers seemed surprised that a. people climbed outside b. would want to and c. would travel the world to do so. The general reports I am getting is that the crags are getting less busy
People need to spread out more, yet it is deeply unfashionable now amongst the young to climb something that has not had the requisite quantity of likes on Instagram.
Why aren't you a BMC member
I would be unhappy with my BMC contribution playing a part in funding comps even if they are only a minor part of BMC budgets.
People need to spread out more, yet it is deeply unfashionable now amongst the young to climb something that has not had the requisite quantity of likes on Instagram.[\quote]Going to popular crags and on popular routes/boulders has very little to do with instagram or social media. When I started climbing ~11 years ago I wanted to go and climb the most classic routes on the most classic crags. Sure I climbed on local crappy rarely done stuff too, but only because it was more convenient than getting to the Cromlech or Pembroke (and mostly because it was more convenient than going to the wall since I lived closer to Avon gorge than the climbing wall). New climbers will always be more excited to go to the classic spots than anywhere else. The first real time I went to the peak I went to plantation. Of course I did, I wanted to do Archangel, White Wand, Crescent Arete... you can blame that on the mags and the videos I guess, but there's always been something making things popular, whether it's instagram, Dosage, On The Edge or presumably word of mouth back before any of that shit.
Quote from: shark on January 19, 2017, 06:41:48 pmThe general reports I am getting is that the crags are getting less busySport crags with easy routes over here are generally seething anthills
The general reports I am getting is that the crags are getting less busy
Quote from: Muenchener on January 19, 2017, 07:22:40 pmQuote from: shark on January 19, 2017, 06:41:48 pmThe general reports I am getting is that the crags are getting less busySport crags with easy routes over here are generally seething anthillsThat's a very specific category, and probably true here as well though I've not been to Portland for a while to find out.
Or glossy guidebooks with lovely photos and star ratings...[/quoteI just don't believe this increases honeypotting. The Tremadoc definitive experimented with no stars and people purchased other guides and climbed the classics anyhow, things got slightly worse. Will is right... many great climbs and some great crags are just not getting the traffic they deserve from the quality shown in the guidebooks. The latest YMC grit guides are the best I've ever seen to encourage people to explore.Where I think Will is wrong is instagram... it may have an effect but not every young climber is a social clone. I'd add on a point made elsewhere: the trashing of problems at Plantation, Cratcliffe and Burb South happened a decade before the current young generation existed. Wire brushes and overbrushing were favoured by too many. If anything things seem to have got better better behaved on the over-brushing front. Chalk overuse seems the same if not worse. Honeypotting is worse.
I firmly believe that the issue is not one of too many climbers, but one of too great a density of climbers.There are empty crags out there rotting and mouldering away. Guisecliff, Eavestone, half of Borrowdale, etc etc etc. Even parts of the popular crags like Caley. These places need traffic. People need to spread out more, yet it is deeply unfashionable now amongst the young to climb something that has not had the requisite quantity of likes on Instagram.
Quote from: Will Hunt on January 20, 2017, 04:09:34 pmPeople need to spread out more, yet it is deeply unfashionable now amongst the young to climb something that has not had the requisite quantity of likes on Instagram.Going to popular crags and on popular routes/boulders has very little to do with instagram or social media. When I started climbing ~11 years ago I wanted to go and climb the most classic routes on the most classic crags. Sure I climbed on local crappy rarely done stuff too, but only because it was more convenient than getting to the Cromlech or Pembroke (and mostly because it was more convenient than going to the wall since I lived closer to Avon gorge than the climbing wall). New climbers will always be more excited to go to the classic spots than anywhere else. The first real time I went to the peak I went to plantation. Of course I did, I wanted to do Archangel, White Wand, Crescent Arete... you can blame that on the mags and the videos I guess, but there's always been something making things popular, whether it's instagram, Dosage, On The Edge or presumably word of mouth back before any of that shit.
Quote from: abarro81 on January 20, 2017, 06:38:32 pmQuote from: Will Hunt on January 20, 2017, 04:09:34 pmPeople need to spread out more, yet it is deeply unfashionable now amongst the young to climb something that has not had the requisite quantity of likes on Instagram.Going to popular crags and on popular routes/boulders has very little to do with instagram or social media. When I started climbing ~11 years ago I wanted to go and climb the most classic routes on the most classic crags. Sure I climbed on local crappy rarely done stuff too, but only because it was more convenient than getting to the Cromlech or Pembroke (and mostly because it was more convenient than going to the wall since I lived closer to Avon gorge than the climbing wall). New climbers will always be more excited to go to the classic spots than anywhere else. The first real time I went to the peak I went to plantation. Of course I did, I wanted to do Archangel, White Wand, Crescent Arete... you can blame that on the mags and the videos I guess, but there's always been something making things popular, whether it's instagram, Dosage, On The Edge or presumably word of mouth back before any of that shit.I would add to this1. I imagine many of us are guilty of searching Youtube for videos of certain problems when struggling to work out suitable beta. Take this to the next level and I imagine that for many, especially when time is limited, people pick problems to attempt based on the videos they have seen, and determining which problems will suit their strengths.2. These days we are spoilt for choice of good quality training facilities, and not just for the special few who could access the School Room, but anyone who has a wall membership. So rather than getting stronger by climbing everything you can do outside, isn't it a given that it's quicker and more efficient to get stronger inside, and go out to climb a few high quality problems, which we know to be quality because all the media tells us so?
I've been climbing nearly 30 years, all styles, all over the place. I climb indoors way more than outdoors and can't imagine nowadays why anyone who starts bouldering indoors would bother going outside. Apart from the obvious honeypots that are admittedly getting thoroughly trashed (i.e. the Plantation) I'm not too worried about the crags getting over-crowded.In a few years time we'll all be doing some form of parkour-meets bouldering in a massive hanger in the Don Valley. Or a climbing version of those phone apps that allow cyclists to train in the garage in front of a widescreen TV as part of a peloton. Maybe.It's only a matter of time before someone builds a replica of a famous route/boulder indoors, with an app to go with it for sharing beta etc.The future of British climbing is indoors. What it lacks (other than the Schoolroom) is set problems/routes that never change, that would be as memorable a 'tick' as if it were an outdoor climb.
Joined for the Cheddar access stuff. I know I should have anyway, but that was what gave me the nudge.
Quote from: T_B on January 20, 2017, 04:17:58 pmI've been climbing nearly 30 years, all styles, all over the place. I climb indoors way more than outdoors and can't imagine nowadays why anyone who starts bouldering indoors would bother going outside. Apart from the obvious honeypots that are admittedly getting thoroughly trashed (i.e. the Plantation) I'm not too worried about the crags getting over-crowded.In a few years time we'll all be doing some form of parkour-meets bouldering in a massive hanger in the Don Valley. Or a climbing version of those phone apps that allow cyclists to train in the garage in front of a widescreen TV as part of a peloton. Maybe.It's only a matter of time before someone builds a replica of a famous route/boulder indoors, with an app to go with it for sharing beta etc.The future of British climbing is indoors. What it lacks (other than the Schoolroom) is set problems/routes that never change, that would be as memorable a 'tick' as if it were an outdoor climb.I couldn't agree with this more. I have climbed in the county for over thirty years and have seen a steady decline in the number of people at the crags in pretty much a direct correlation to the number of walls. Kyloe in and bowden used to have 30+ people on them on good days in the 80s now its a handful at most and if you go off the beaten track you will be surprised to see another party. Places like Bowden got trashed very quickly due to the repeated tries nature of bouldering not due to loads more people going to the crag.Everyone things Malham and Kilnsey are busy now but you should have seen them in the late 80s (malham) early 90s (kilnsey). I went to borrowdale this year for the 1st time in 20 years and was blown away that there was no one climbing. Shepherds and Falcon used to have queues for the popular routes.Indoor climbing and comps are the big growth factor for our sport and will only become more so. It would be ludicrous for it not to be part of the BMC and i think they need to go much further in support of this. The money gained form encouraging the indoor climbers to join can then support the writing of esoteric guides. The future growth of climbing has to be seen as indoors and i dont see why the BMC dont want to benefit financially from it.
The future growth of climbing has to be seen as indoors and i dont see why the BMC dont want to benefit financially from it.