[petejh]

Kirkpatrick's views are antithetical to what the BMC does. The BMC shouldn’t imply support by having anything to do with him. Over to you BMC.

Isn't he just an aid climber anyway? Not real climbing, sketchy rope access.

[petejh]

I think I have BMC membership through being in the CC but am not entirely sure.

I'm generally supportive of the BMC and what they do, but see them as still an extremely Anglo-centric organisation. I don't understand the reasons or need for there to be splits between Scotland and Northern Ireland versus England/Wales. In the case of NI in my recent experience there seems to be a case for the BMC to oversee access issues and youth development because Mountaineering Ireland (the body covering both South and North) gives the impression to me of treating NI as a poor relation.

Regards access - I see the BMC as a force for good in general but more in terms of 'they do what they can with limited resources and they're all we have' rather than 'they do a first class job'.

BMC TV - a welcome alternative to more heavily commercialised content (especially 'female boulderer's' adverts for over-caffeinated sugary drink company).

Guidebooks - Love 'em. Grimer and the volunteer writers/researchers are doing a first class job and for me justify the membership fee almost alone. (If I paid it, which I don't).

Insurance - I'm not qualified to comment as I'm guilty of being 'that guy' who usually doesn't bother for trips.

Huts - The CC and other clubs have a great network of huts which is something/main thing that attracted me to the CC. The BMC don't seem t have much stake in running their own hut network (Roaches the only one?) but if the club-hut network ever started to suffer I could foresee this being a useful area for BMC assistance.

And finally the BMC support all sorts of good causes - they helped me and A.B. pay the costs of publishing NW Lime (which we fully repaid within months of release) as they have with various other 'good things'. Funding towards re-equipping the Ormes another one.

[Mike Highbury]

Kirkpatrick follows Philip Davies, FFS

[Oldmanmatt]

Christ! Had no idea Hague was so rich he'd be blowing 800k on a holiday. I had that down as Saudi prince stuff.

It was a present. From someone else, for whom it was chump change and who was, in fact, my employer.


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[Iesu]

Christ! Had no idea Hague was so rich he'd be blowing 800k on a holiday. I had that down as Saudi prince stuff.

It was a present. From someone else, for whom it was chump change and who was, in fact, my employer.


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Makes me wonder whether that is/was the sort of thing disclosed in the record of Member's interests? Hague was Welsh Secretary at the time wasn't he? Was he as much of a bell-end in person as he came across as over the media?

[Will Hunt]

Kirkpatrick follows Philip Davies, FFS

So do I. He's my MP so it's good to be reminded what a twat he is at regular intervals to ensure that I vote against him at every opportunity.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ok. Way off topic. I'm fairly sure I was under an NDA, so in brief. The person in question was (is?) a Tory Grandee and officer of the Party. That person was my employer and may, or may not, have had to pay for the yacht. It was a "second" honeymoon, according to Ffion, something about number one being too official. Entertaining Tory shadow ministers was normal and I guess almost treated as Party business. That's what Mega-yachts are for.
I cannot comment on his character, but Ffion was great. She was up for ice diving, riding Wave runners through ice flows etc etc. Other people required a Helo after less than four hours trekking on the ice.

None of this is the BMC's fault. Though I wish Grimer had been there, because the Jam Crack would have been a classic.


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[Iesu]

None of this is the BMC's fault. Though I wish Grimer had been there, because the Jam Crack would have been a classic.

As a fee paying Member, I take it as my right to blame them for whatever I damn well please!

[jwi]

(Regarding your question, because I'm a member of FFME)

  I'm willing to excuse Ezra Pound's fascism on the strength of The Cantos, I'm less willing to excuse Kirkpatrick's on the strength of Psychovertical, which I found whiny, ill-written and self-indulgent.

[cheque]

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Psychovertical either. Even less of a fan of what I've just seen of his Twitter feed. 

[Will Hunt]

Yeah, I wasn't a fan of Psychovertical either. Even less of a fan of what I've just seen of his Twitter feed. 

I've heard that Cheque's latest film is supported by BMC TV. Frankly I'm shocked that a helicopter was not provisioned. Furthermore, there were no professional stuntpersons used, so when you see people deck out in the film you're actually seeing real people getting hurt, not just expendable stunt minions.

[Fiend]

This is a genuine question directed mainly to non-members but also to members i.e. Did you join because of a direct benefit or requirement or out of general support for the (good) things it is doing?

Direct benefit - BMC travel insurance.

(Also happened to have the benefit of climbing at Cheddar but that definitely wasn't the intention)

Didn't join previously as I had other travel insurance.

Did previously sort-of generally support the good things it did by buying all the guidebooks (including 3 I was offered for free for participating but chose to purchase because they're ace - including using money I got for getting Western Grit Rockfax for free and immediately selling it unopened  )

[tommytwotone]

The person in question was (is?) a Tory Grandee and officer of the Party. That person was my employer and may, or may not, have had to pay for the yacht.

Called Michael Green by any chance? Looked quite a look like that Schapps fella?


Heard he's got some guaranteed ways of making loads of dosh online.

[fatneck]

Was a member for years but cancelled the DD when dealing with a few debt issues and never got back round to renewing. Just renewed as Ian said - nice to be able to cite UKB as a contributing factor in my decision (although not really where i heard about the BMC?)...

[ashtond6]

Member via cc but wouldn't join on its own.

I think it's pretty old fashioned in its mentality
I disagree with the comps in a big way
I don't even get an insurance quote anymore as its been a rip off for at least 5 years
Guidebooks seem to be for areas with 184832 guidebooks already
Area meets are unproductive and discuss fence posts and farmers rather than access in my experience

[shark]

Was a member for years but cancelled the DD when dealing with a few debt issues and never got back round to renewing. Just renewed as Ian said - nice to be able to cite UKB as a contributing factor in my decision (although not really where i heard about the BMC?)...

Nice one 

Might be good for us to include an additional question of what prompted joining in addition to where you heard about the BMC

[Will Hunt]

Member via cc but wouldn't join on its own.

I think it's pretty old fashioned in its mentality
I disagree with the comps in a big way
I don't even get an insurance quote anymore as its been a rip off for at least 5 years
Guidebooks seem to be for areas with 184832 guidebooks already
Area meets are unproductive and discuss fence posts and farmers rather than access in my experience

Out of interest, could you describe why you think it's old fashioned?

I can't think of any BMC guidebooks that cover an area that already has a definitive guide. Can you enlighten us which areas you mean?

If an area meet discusses a farmer's fence, it is very likely to be an access issue!

[dave]

I think it's pretty old fashioned in its mentality

I disagree with the comps in a big way 

Fair enough, but it does kind of contradict the first point above.

Guidebooks seem to be for areas with 184832 guidebooks already

Give us an example? Unless I have missed something BMC has extremely well received guides out to the Peak (where the BMC is the sole publisher of definitive guides), Lancashire (again, no other definitive guide exist?) and Cheshire Sandstone (ditto? I'm guessing). Wouldn't really be able to spread to other areas without treading on the toes of regional producers, YMC, CC, NMC etc I would have thought.

Area meets are unproductive and discuss fence posts and farmers rather than access in my experience

Which ones have been going to, and when?

[Oldmanmatt]

I spent an evening chatting about re-purposing now defunct qarries, through planning permission as climbing venues. Discussing the possibility of getting Quarry operators to do a more climbing friendly final blast before shutting down, to creat new opportunity elsewhere. Along with a few minutes on the subject of an old codger who keeps removing belay stakes from a decent path at A.N.Other crag, because he views it as fixed equipment (decent path, not route!)
Now given the average age in that room, the fact that the old codger was considered "old" suggests to me that he won't be an issue much longer and that the organisation is probably not that "old-fashioned".
Talked about comps too, YCS in particular, a lot of the older attendees were the most supportive.
Hey ho, takes many to mow.



All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[Duncan campbell]

Member via cc but wouldn't join on its own.

I think it's pretty old fashioned in its mentality

But you joined the CC!?!?

Regarding comps, I agree they aren't what climbing about to me. But they are here to stay. Better that the BMC is relevant in the sphere that the government will take note of when the olympics roll round than let some comp climbing committee who don't do any access work?

[slackline]

Regarding comps, I agree they aren't what climbing about to me. But they are here to stay. Better that the BMC is relevant in the sphere that the government will take note of when the olympics roll round than let some comp climbing committee who don't do any access work?

I can't see the connection between obtaining whatever government funding is available to get people to a competition on the other side of the world and access issues in the UK beyond being aware of the organisation, the BMC in this case, existence.  If canvassing for cash to support athletes to attend and compete in a sporting event it would dilute if the message if local access issues were mentioned at the same time (e.g. "Why the fuck are they banging on about coastal regions when they're seeking cash to go to the Olympics?"), and besides access campaigning and local access negotiations have been going on for a long time before competitions came along and were a priority for the BMC.


I'm a BMC member, joined for insurance and for the access work.  I remain for the later as the former is no longer competitive.

[petejh]

I agree with this^ and think it would make sense to have a separate body overseeing all things competition and funding thereof. UK Climbing.
And people at the BMC wonder why their proposed name change got linked in this way?! Lunacy.

[Fiend]

Guidebooks seem to be for areas with 184832 guidebooks already

Even if that were the case, you've got it arse-over-tit. Where there have been multiple guides to an area, usually the BMC guides were the original guides to the area before more commercial guides tried to cash in on the popularity of the areas and duplicate existing guides. And where the BMC guides have come out subsequently, they have invariably been of higher quality as well as covering all the valuable non-honeypots the big selective guides miss (also playing a role in access by spreading the load, investigating access issues as part of the process, etc).

[Will Hunt]

Regarding comps, I agree they aren't what climbing about to me. But they are here to stay. Better that the BMC is relevant in the sphere that the government will take note of when the olympics roll round than let some comp climbing committee who don't do any access work?

I can't see the connection between obtaining whatever government funding is available to get people to a competition on the other side of the world and access issues in the UK beyond being aware of the organisation, the BMC in this case, existence.  If canvassing for cash to support athletes to attend and compete in a sporting event it would dilute if the message if local access issues were mentioned at the same time (e.g. "Why the fuck are they banging on about coastal regions when they're seeking cash to go to the Olympics?"), and besides access campaigning and local access negotiations have been going on for a long time before competitions came along and were a priority for the BMC.


I'm a BMC member, joined for insurance and for the access work.  I remain for the later as the former is no longer competitive.

With regards access, the BMC trades on its influence and how it is perceived by the public who come into contact with it. Competition climbing, is soon to become the thing that the layperson thinks of when you say "climbing" to them. If the organisation splits then there's a real risk that the access work will suffer as, in the eyes of a layperson, British Climbing or Climb Britain or whatever (the hypothetical governing body of the comps) becomes the principal organisation of note and influence, and the BMC is perceived as a gaggle of moaners who can easily be ignored.

I don't give a crap about comps but I think that all climbers (or hill walkers for that matter), whatever their bag, should be united under one representative body. I didn't used to think this. What changed my mind was the realisation that the BMC could take on a wider brief and still carry on delivering on all fronts. If they were sacrificing other work in order to focus on comps/hill walking etc, I'd be opposed to the broadened scope of the organisation.

[danm]

Great thread Shark, some really interesting stuff is coming out here.