[Paul B]

Are you 10 stone now Bennett? 

I accidentally weighed myself before Christmas (persuading the dog to get on some scales) at around 10 stone, yes. Newman changed my profile pic at the wall to Dobbin's chin booth rendition!

Do AnCap on a circuit board, much more fun! Can stay open handed too...

I'll have a look at the Depot circuit boards for this; my first impression is it may be tricky. They're great for aero-work but as you increased difficulty unsurprisingly the hold size decreases, also, it's quite often that the 'colour' of the circuit dictates the type of hold. Finding something 12-15 moves long with acceptable RH holds may be a challenge!
My home board will make this easier.

I spent three months at one point doing careful weighted hangs until I could half crimp the beast maker crimp with 56kg weight, two months back into bouldering I tweaked a finger again so if you're anything like me I suspect a life of moaning about tweaky digits is ahead despite how much effort you put into bomb proofing your fingers
Maybe shorten your sessions too I found this also helps.

Noooo! To be fair, I've been fairly finger injury free for the past couple of years.

[36chambers]

Do AnCap on a circuit board, much more fun! Can stay open handed too...

I'll have a look at the Depot circuit boards for this; my first impression is it may be tricky. They're great for aero-work but as you increased difficulty unsurprisingly the hold size decreases, also, it's quite often that the 'colour' of the circuit dictates the type of hold. Finding something 12-15 moves long with acceptable RH holds may be a challenge!

Make up your own circuit accordingly then . I normally do my AnCap sessions on caves/roofs and usually have to add extensions to make up the number of moves. I also try to set something similar to my outdoor projects.

[Paul B]

Make up your own circuit accordingly then .

Yellows/Reds for RH, Purples/Oranges for LH? 

[Luke Owens]

I'll have a look at the Depot circuit boards for this; my first impression is it may be tricky. They're great for aero-work but as you increased difficulty unsurprisingly the hold size decreases,

I had this problem when I realised all my circuits were crimp fests so I used bigger holds but did bigger moves instead, you could even throw in a few campus moves. As long as you're getting powered out towards the end of your set.

Once you're closer to trying your projects (and hopefully further away from your injury) you could make them more specific.

[Luke Owens]

I spent three months at one point doing careful weighted hangs until I could half crimp the beast maker crimp with 56kg weight

How often were you doing your hangs Ducko? Were your fingerboard sessions short?

Cheers

[Paul B]

I'm wary of whinging here (get lost 3-9!) the Depot (Manchester edition) hasn't quite settled in with respect to training (the 30 board especially) and the shear size of the wall comes with a few (minor issues), hold density being one; making up your own problems is quite tricky in that respect (and brushing holds is another side effect; no brush sticks allowed). I'll have a look what's possible on the circuit boards in terms of AnCap but thinking from memory it'll be flawed. With that said, they're really good at improving things and I expect that over time the boards will bed in and reflect the Leeds offerings more closely.

What this does highlight is just how awesome a well set small board can be (I'm thinking Foundry furnace board) and just how useful my home board should be.

[James Malloch]

I'm wary of whinging here (get lost 3-9!) the Depot (Manchester edition) hasn't quite settled in with respect to training (the 30 board especially) and the shear size of the wall comes with a few (minor issues), hold density being one; making up your own problems is quite tricky in that respect (and brushing holds is another side effect; no brush sticks allowed). I'll have a look what's possible on the circuit boards in terms of AnCap but thinking from memory it'll be flawed. With that said, they're really good at improving things and I expect that over time the boards will bed in and reflect the Leeds offerings more closely.

What this does highlight is just how awesome a well set small board can be (I'm thinking Foundry furnace board) and just how useful my home board should be.

No brushes on sticks? What's the rationale for that?!

I can see what you mean about hold density etc there though - I noticed that it's so spaced out from my one visit over Christmas. I did find the purple (7b+?) circuit nice for my RH finger injury as it had lots of slopers/pinches that could be dragged. But as you say the harder ones resort to crimps. I guess it depends on the level you want but I'd imagine it wouldn't be ideal for an-cap.

[cheque]

No brushes on sticks? What's the rationale for that?!

Health and safety told the Notts Depot that they couldn't have them in case they were left lying on the mats and climbers fell on them. I assume this is the case in Manchester too.

[James Malloch]

No brushes on sticks? What's the rationale for that?!

Health and safety told the Notts Depot that they couldn't have them in case they were left lying on the mats and climbers fell on them. I assume this is the case in Manchester too.

Ah okay - thought I'd seen them in Leeds Depot. Though unlike Manchester the board is in a separate room from the main wall so perhaps it has different rules.

Or I could have mis-remembered this.

[cheque]

The impression I was given (when I mentioned that other walls have them) is that it's dependent on who does your health and safety inspection.

[moose]

No brushes on sticks? What's the rationale for that?!

Health and safety told the Notts Depot that they couldn't have them in case they were left lying on the mats and climbers fell on them. I assume this is the case in Manchester too.

Ah okay - thought I'd seen them in Leeds Depot. Though unlike Manchester the board is in a separate room from the main wall so perhaps it has different rules.
Or I could have mis-remembered this.

The Leeds Depot has a brush-on-a-stick in the separate training room but it is forbidden to take it into the main climbing area.

[standard]

comment removed - point already made above

[duncan]

Back to painful fingers for a moment, what's missing so far is consideration of how long a go the injury happened. Perhaps it's obvious but a recent injury should be handled with care. Avoid provoking pain: do less or do something different. Lots of good advice on this above.

Generally pain after a session is ok, you just don't want it to hurt whilst you are doing something (I also find a bit of pain warming up is also ok, but it should go once warm).

I'd qualify this slightly by saying that in a sub-acute injury (a few days to a few weeks after injury) pain the evening after a session is unlikely to be a concern. If it's sore all through the next day you've probably over-done it slightly in my view. In a very recent (few days old) injury definitely err on the cautious side.

Long-term (very roughly >3 months) pain can be abused more happily: persistent tendon injuries seem to require stressing into pain to promote healing for example. Long-term pain is less likely to be an accurate representation of tissue damage and more likely a ghost of the old injury, a softwear rather than hardwear problem.

Everyone is different though and you have to try to learn what pain means to you, these ideas can only ever be suggestions. I find the hardest time to judge what to do is when you re-injure an old problem and the pain doesn't go away after a day or two. Treat like a persistent problem, treat like a new problem, or somewhere in-between? I'm still learning about myself on that one.

[ducko]

I spent three months at one point doing careful weighted hangs until I could half crimp the beast maker crimp with 56kg weight

How often were you doing your hangs Ducko? Were your fingerboard sessions short?

Cheers

Started off doing 3x per week (warm up, 3 Max hangs @ 10sec 2 min rest between hangs)
After 6 weeks I did it 4x per week and re evaluated my max ability everytime my sets felt easy.
Started on 20ish kg and always maintain half crimp.
I felt mega strong on my hangs but not as strong when climbing as I expected, I went from 20kg to 56kg which is quiet a big jump but my finger strength when climbing wasn't quiet as noticeable!

[Paul B]

Generally pain after a session is ok, you just don't want it to hurt whilst you are doing something (I also find a bit of pain warming up is also ok, but it should go once warm).

I'd qualify this slightly by saying that in a sub-acute injury (a few days to a few weeks after injury) pain the evening after a session is unlikely to be a concern. If it's sore all through the next day you've probably over-done it slightly in my view. In a very recent (few days old) injury definitely err on the cautious side.

It's interesting this as Ru's suggestion is what I'd generally end up regarding as a downward spiral.  How are you (both) defining 'pain' in the above instances; pain from carrying a shopping bag? pain from sticking your finger nail in it to see if hurts? etc. Obviously provoking the injury repeatedly isn't good.

With respect to brush-sticks, mainly it's not an issue as there's usually an easy problem nearby (and there's also a good turnover of problems)but in certain cases there isn't (comp wall, BM board, certain problems); I do wonder if the H&S RA took into consideration the increased likelihood of someone doing a me from the top of the wall due to the absence of brushes! 

[B0405413]

I think the Manchester depot allows you to bring your own stick brush in, as long as it's not left on the mat. That's what one of the members of staff told me anyway. Seems fair.

[galpinos]

Paul, if the H&S Inspectors new you would be using the Depot, I doubt it would have been allowed to open.

What's your issue with the 30? (not been down for ages due to working away and now, pneumonia)

[Paul B]

Paul, if the H&S Inspectors new you would be using the Depot, I doubt it would have been allowed to open.

Quite! I had a special moment in opening week that scared the hell out of both me and Tom!

What's your issue with the 30? (not been down for ages due to working away and now, pneumonia)

Basically hold choice, it goes from very positive to positively poor very quickly. The Leeds 30 is much much better IMO (Malc training holds, +30 pockets crimps and pinches etc.).

I've chatted with Ste and Tom about this and think it may get a few additions / tweaks; I've not been to a wall as open to change / comments as the Depot so if any of this seems typically negative of me it's not meant to be, I think it's the best new bouldering wall I've been to...

I think the Manchester depot allows you to bring your own stick brush in, as long as it's not left on the mat. That's what one of the members of staff told me anyway. Seems fair.

Good knowledge, I'll ask next time I'm in.

[abarro81]

An cap can be done on the fingerboard, as a starter Anderson hangs are pretty an cap esque... Basically get hanging and doing core!

[Paul B]

It's interesting this as Ru's suggestion is what I'd generally end up regarding as a downward spiral.  How are you (both) defining 'pain' in the above instances; pain from carrying a shopping bag? pain from sticking your finger nail in it to see if hurts? etc. Obviously provoking the injury repeatedly isn't good.

I'd still be interested in thoughts on the above.

Thanks all for the input. I had a session last night (no crimping, steady progression through the grades stopping at middling) and had no pain climbing (a massive jug pressed on it and that was as sore as it got). When finishing the session there was some soreness (if you went 'looking' for it) but not much (I quickly popped some Vit I mind you). This morning I'm being good and leaving it alone but I haven't noticed it. As said before, I'm more interested in understanding working around this or future issues rather than a 'my finger hurts fix it quicker please' thread.

[Luke Owens]

I'm more interested in understanding working around this or future issues rather than a 'my finger hurts fix it quicker please' thread.

Same here, mine feel pretty much alright after a month of not crimping.

Going forward though I'm in the same boat as I don't just want it to happen all over again. One the things I've wondering about, which I think has been discussed before is endurance based on grip type.

For example since buggering my A2's I've done any AeroCap/Pow and AnCap open handed, does anyone know if this is detrimental to crimp endurance?

Fighting to latch a crimp on an AnCap circuit sounds like asking for a tweak...

[nick63]

Ok first ever post and probably the worst subject to chose. Pain is weird (if you want to know more I recommend looking a Lorimer Mosley Youtube videos).  Pain bares no relationship to tissue injury. Pain is not an input to the brain it is an output.  The brain simply asks the question 'how much danger is there really?'. Now previous injury will therefore, because of memory and thoughts (hippocampus, PFC, ACC, RVM), and enhanced emotional responses (limbic, nucleus abducens, amygdala, insular cortex etc) increase the likelihood that placing the hand/finger in a similar position to that that caused the original injury illicit a pain response in the absence of any injury. This is the brain being over protective, getting the 'how much danger' question wrong. This is along the lines of viewing a picture of a nasty fracture causes a reaction or a smell evoking a memory.

The simplest, but not completely reliable test is does the pain 'go straight away or within seconds' if it's yes then it's probably ok. Since we are talking short term or relatively short term 'pain' injury problems then the healing with good management should be within a normal time scale (whatever that is?) 6-8 weeks? Long term 'pain' is a very different matter since this involves neural signal changes, both peripheral and central, decreased cortical representation on brain cortex plus a whole cascade of maladaptive autoimmune and hormonal responses.

In answer, I think to your question Luke, it won't affect crimp endurance but I would have thought affect force generation at the chosen prehension?   

[duncan]

It's interesting this as Ru's suggestion is what I'd generally end up regarding as a downward spiral.  How are you (both) defining 'pain' in the above instances; pain from carrying a shopping bag? pain from sticking your finger nail in it to see if hurts? etc. Obviously provoking the injury repeatedly isn't good.

I mean pain when doing something. Particularly climbing or something like climbing. Prodding the area to see if it's still tender is not so helpful, in my view.

[Schnell]

It's interesting this as Ru's suggestion is what I'd generally end up regarding as a downward spiral.  How are you (both) defining 'pain' in the above instances; pain from carrying a shopping bag? pain from sticking your finger nail in it to see if hurts? etc. Obviously provoking the injury repeatedly isn't good.

I mean pain when doing something. Particularly climbing or something like climbing. Prodding the area to see if it's still tender is not so helpful, in my view.

Thanks for answering, was hoping someone would pick up on this.

That's surprising. Except for right at the time of injury I've pretty much always used prodding as a way of judging how my recovery is going, but this is something I'm never sure about. I mean if I have no pain when climbing but the finger is tender to touch when I poke it, does that mean I'm not even injured at all? Obviously it's very difficult to judge yourself how hard I'm poking it, am I applying the same pressure as yesterday/the day before etc. As well as the fact that if you poke anything hard enough it's likely to be pretty uncomfortable.

The physio I've seen about finger injuries has used prodding as a way of diagnosing a problem, but this wouldn't be immediately after climbing on it so a bit different.

[36chambers]

I've always used prodding to decided whether I've overdone it or not. I've two tweaky fingers, from injuries 18 months (A2) and 4 months (A4) ago, which don't give me any aggro when I climb but they can feel much more tender when I prod them if I've pushed them too much.

Furthermore, I've noticed that increase pain in my A2 normally coincides with slight inflation in my PIP joint.