[mark s]

I happened to look on twitter when it all kicked off and was watching a news anchor live in the Capitol building. It was sort of on par with the amazement of what I was seeing on 9/11
It's mind boggling to think what they believe and its mind bending to think it's coming from the man in charge.
I hope a lot of those cops get sacked, complete dereliction of duty.
I've seen a few of the vids of the woman getting one in the neck. At every barrier she passed her confidence grew. Until she got over confident.
Shock the next morning when the likes of Palin was claiming the old enemy of antifa were dressed as trump supporters.
The FBI will be laughing at all the self recorded evidence they provided. It will be an interesting week or 2 seeing how many they round up.

[mark s]

What about a 4th Option Pete?

Flynn/Prince/GRU etc. with a smaller cadre of conspirators (the ex-military guys with plates, guns and cableties) with a clear mission amongst the largely naive Trump driven herd of ‘protestors’.

It looks to me like there were two distinct groups in the ‘mob’ some of whom with clearer intent than the majority.

The fish really stinks.

There was a lot of military and police types in there. Almost to the point of the officer who died being friendly fire.

I've seen a guy on twitter really going into searching who they are, lots replying. The tactics, clothing cable ties etc. Even naming some high ranking army types.

[Oldmanmatt]

What about a 4th Option Pete?

Flynn/Prince/GRU etc. with a smaller cadre of conspirators (the ex-military guys with plates, guns and cableties) with a clear mission amongst the largely naive Trump driven herd of ‘protestors’.

It looks to me like there were two distinct groups in the ‘mob’ some of whom with clearer intent than the majority.

The fish really stinks.

There was a lot of military and police types in there. Almost to the point of the officer who died being friendly fire.

I've seen a guy on twitter really going into searching who they are, lots replying. The tactics, clothing cable ties etc. Even naming some high ranking army types.

Do you have a link?

Some of the people there must surely be ill.
This, apparently is a Doctor (MD). She’s not playing with a full deck:
https://twitter.com/dremilyportermd/status/1347615820768272390?s=12

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Yes.
Though this speaks to my take on their “agency”, I’m not quite as generous as Dave, I think some of the people in that were incapable of agency through education and educational ability..

It's difficult, isn't it. Agency, intent, criminal action. A balanced consideration of the first doesn't condone the latter. However, "moronic" actions of a minority need to be separated out, rather than being used to indicate the "moronic nature" (which there isn't) of the whole.

And the question of "the whole" is an interesting one, when you direct it towards Trump.

[Oldmanmatt]

Oophhh!

I used to carry a pretty hefty PI package (oo er missus) when I was in practice, fucking up a Mega yacht might get a bit “brown trouser” serious in the liability stakes.
Pretty sure it wouldn’t cover this modest claim:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/dominion-sues-trump-lawyer-sidney-powell-defamation-seeks-1-3-n1253464?fbclid=IwAR3ToDW9QM4iKnCcITqfCZX83gE57s5qrx0P1HdLEu0VfGBYpzIg5jJP0fA

Actually, if you prefer, the whole filing is available. 124 pages and not enough jokes. Still funny:

https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699/gov.uscourts.dcd.225699.1.0_3.pdf

[Oldmanmatt]

Yes.
Though this speaks to my take on their “agency”, I’m not quite as generous as Dave, I think some of the people in that were incapable of agency through education and educational ability..

It's difficult, isn't it. Agency, intent, criminal action. A balanced consideration of the first doesn't condone the latter. However, "moronic" actions of a minority need to be separated out, rather than being used to indicate the "moronic nature" (which there isn't) of the whole.

And the question of "the whole" is an interesting one, when you direct it towards Trump.

Part of my issue, is recognising aspects of myself in these peoples background. Coupled with a sense of loss, bordering on bereavement, that some of my cherished memories of people I met (either in 1980, when we drove from Mexico to Canada over a three month period or my later year in San Jose) is shattered by the thought that some of them might well have been in that crowd. People that I thought were friendly and welcoming, which they were to me, a good, polite, little white boy (if a little olive tinged). I never had cause to see any other side to them. Looking back, I had hardly any interaction with POC in those times, they didn’t live in the areas I was in. Seen, but almost zero interaction beyond ordering a burger.
The most POC interaction I had was a tour of the County Jail, where my host did a couple shifts every week. I had no reason to see that as odd.
I find it too easy to imagine the path that some of these people followed to that Capitol.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Matt,

absolutely.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

Interesting video (among many) about the illusion of success:



It seems that those who believe they are more responsible for their own success, are likely to get to "the top".

It's interesting to consider who believes they deserve, and can do something about it, compared to those who are more disenfranchised.

Trump's "success" plays on the struggle of the latter of course.

[Oldmanmatt]

This from the Governor of Maryland, is pretty damning.
He all but accuses Trump, via the Pentagon/DOD of trying facilitate the Capitol’s seizure by delaying guard deployment.
It sounds like somebody lost their nerve, eventually, releasing the authorisations needed. Only just in time.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2021/01/08/maryland-governor-describes-delayed-permission-to-send-national-guard/

[mark s]

https://extremism.gwu.edu/Capitol-Hill-Cases

Only clicked on 1st case. Detailed for sure.

[Falling Down]

Twitter just permanently deleted Trump’s account (along with Flynn’s, Powell’s, Bongino’s and several others). Too little, too late.

[DAVETHOMAS90]

To think, I used to dismiss him because of his hair.

This is pretty good.

[Oldmanmatt]

Twitter just permanently deleted Trump’s account (along with Flynn’s, Powell’s, Bongino’s and several others). Too little, too late.

Google has disabled Parler and Apple are reviewing it.

There has been an attempt to organise a second assault on the 17th and the Cheeto’s statement about not attending the inauguration has been interpreted as permission or encouragement to attack that.

I don’t think he’s going to leave the White house a free man.
I used to think that talk of him being prosecuted for this that and the other, would just fade and he would be swept under the carpet.
I think he crossed a Rubicon though (more Caesar salad than General) and I think they’ve decided he’s too dangerous to be allowed to continue. “They” being a lose coalition of cross party power brokers and oligarchs, almost certainly holding their noses to shake on it.

[teestub]

Twitter just permanently deleted Trump’s account (along with Flynn’s, Powell’s, Bongino’s and several others). Too little, too late.

A lot of spines suddenly growing this week.

Matt I saw 19th for ‘million militia March’  but maybe they are being relatively smart and throwing out some chaff.

I’m sure inaugurations are high security affairs anyway, but this year, holy shit.

[Will Hunt]

I don’t think he’s going to leave the White house a free man.

I used to think that maybe his ego would prevent him from pardoning himself, because it would be seen as an admission of guilt. After the latest events I think there's a very strong chance he pardons himself and says he had to do it because the "political swamp" were doing whatever they could to lock him up.

[Oldmanmatt]

On a brighter note, the company that printed up the “Revolution 2021” commemorative prison wear, have outdone themselves, with their follow up “morning after” casual wear line:

[tomtom]

Day 2 of reflection - having read and watched a few things about this process:

The level of belief that the Trump/Supremicist demonstrators had for this protest - that they would not get punished - that they felt that they could do this, it might work, and that they could get away with it is a really scary takeaway for me.

Its indicative of how empowered and legitimised these people now feel under trump - and with retrospect how they were/have been allowed to get away with it! Especially when compared with the BLM protests.

Shocking. And the message thats sent from this too...

More on the impunity / empowerment felt by the Trump/far right -

Have you seen the vids of Mitt Romney being heckled (by many) on the flight - and Lindsey Graham being shouted at - at an airport I think...

[mrjonathanr]

Yes. I think many in that subculture see Wednesday as a success and precursor to worse over coming days and weeks.

[petejh]

Yes.
Though this speaks to my take on their “agency”, I’m not quite as generous as Dave, I think some of the people in that were incapable of agency through education and educational ability..

It's difficult, isn't it. Agency, intent, criminal action. A balanced consideration of the first doesn't condone the latter. However, "moronic" actions of a minority need to be separated out, rather than being used to indicate the "moronic nature" (which there isn't) of the whole.

And the question of "the whole" is an interesting one, when you direct it towards Trump.

Dave, I appreciate your Buddhist leanings and that you seek to see the positive in people. I share your belief in the potential in people. But no, sometimes it isn't 'difficult' - some people and some circumstances are just toxic and dangerous, and you can look to the history of human life on this planet since written records began for evidence in support.  I had typed a long post involving personal life stories and why people have agency, at least enough agency to choose not to act like this (scroll to the end): https://twitter.com/i/status/1347616155394043904

But in the end I couldn't be bothered explaining why I feel qualified to say 'don't act like a cunt just because you feel life served you a lemon'.


BTW in your linked vid, the next clip in line discusses Bayes' Theorem. As you may know this describes an equation for forming beliefs of the world based on the prior available evidence and then how to alter those beliefs as new evidence emerges. Everything you need to know about truth, evidence and Trump supporters can be summarised in the 15 seconds from the timestamp 6mins40 seconds on this clip. I thought that was ironic

And Russell Brand.. give me a break. One attention-seeker talking about another isn't very enlightening. The only way to fight dangerous malevolent narcissists is to not rise to their provocation and to starve them of attention - hence FB, Twitter etc. finally no-platforming Trump and his cronies.

[Oldmanmatt]

Personally, I’d have liked to read the long post, Pete.
I know you have interesting experiences to draw on.

I definitely, well sort of, for sure, almost, absolutely, a bit, agree about some people being beyond hope.
When a dog attacks a child, we put it down, because we know the risk of a future attack isn’t worth the possibility of training the aggression out not working.

But, there have been apparently quite hopelessly corrupted people, who have been rehabilitated.

There was, too, a reason I mentioned the Derek Bentley case in an earlier post. Sometimes culpability is not so clear cut.

Take the ‘honour killing” examplle too. Something we’ve had to wrestle with in this country and will continue to have to counter. It is clearly wrong, by any objective measure (to me, that means any secular contemplation of even the vaguest, broadest, definitions of right and wrong, place murder firmly in the “wrong” category. Which is right (or is wrong? Too early on a Saturday, brain hurts).
However, those who carry out such atrocities, firmly believe in their righteousness. As they have been programmed to believe by underlying culture, religion and respected authority figures and texts. Their agency was proscribed. Saying that they were at liberty to choose a different path, is, absolutely, correct; it simply neglects the likelihood that they were programmed to see such options as nonviable.

Non of that, or anything I previously wrote, means I am unaware that individuals can and have broken their programming. I’m just certain that that is harder than it seems, to a group of forum posters, who, by and large, appear to in the category of “program breakers” and nonconformist by nature or nurture.


Haven’t read the Twatter thread yet, I will.

Edit:

The Tweet has been disabled and the thread removed “for inciting violence”. I guess I can imagine it. Scrolling through her tweets has given me a headache.

Has anybody else noticed the massive number of blonde, buxom, Barbie clones, that this section of society seems to venerate so highly? Weird, considering how misogynistic the movement is as a whole. Anybody would think the majority of the “Alpha males” with the big guns (in their hands, probably not their trousers) weren’t getting enough and are disproportionately thirsty. Almost like they’d follow blue eyes and a cleavage into a burning building.

[petejh]

The twitter vid is still there when I just looked. If you want to erode your faith in humanity.

[teestub]

One of the guys with the zip cuffs and plate is a retired Air Force Lt Colonel https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-air-force-combat-veteran-breached-the-senate

[Oldmanmatt]

One of the guys with the zip cuffs and plate is a retired Air Force Lt Colonel https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/an-air-force-combat-veteran-breached-the-senate

Yeah. I thought things were quieting down.

You might remember I mentioned an “Intelligence community” and former USN friend, partner of an old CO?

He’s *The* security bod at ADNOC and a senior consultant to the Saudi gov., but he’s taken leave and flown back to the US.

I’ve seen him get quite angry about this stuff on Facebook before, but he’s ratcheting up almost to the same levels as Trumps Troopers.
People such as him and his friends, have resources that are not to be ignored. This is a delicate situation. If he’s making public pronouncements like this, given the risk to his position, the rusty clip, that holds the pin, that keeps the anger in; is failing.

I texted his partner and told her to tie him to a chair and hide his ammo. Frankly, I think she might be helping him load, whilst strapping  on her own plate carrier:



Edit:

Actually, the last line of the article you linked, Teestub, is pretty central to all this.

[Oldmanmatt]

Also, too funny.

One thing climbers can learn from the Capitol incident.

Crowd barricades do make good pad substitutes:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CJythZ8jv5z/?igshid=o50fogpz1gom

*Not. Do not make good substitutes.

[mrjonathanr]

Rather positive take on the consequences of Tejero’s attempted ‘81 coup in Madrid parliament from the Guardian. Worth a read if you are not familiar with those events. Personally, as a student of Spanish, I remember getting in from school to watch goggle eyed as events unfolded.

Gil Scott Héron was definitely wrong on that occasion.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/09/spaniards-1981-storming-capitol-spain-trumpism