[Oldmanmatt]

I'm sorry Pete, but that is complete bullshit.

It’s not and de-escalation is very likely the key approach.
The lack of guard, the fact that they (apparently) weren’t ready to stop exactly this, are the very odd aspects.
If the VA Guard deploy, are they going to find themselves opposing the DC guard?

[Oldmanmatt]

The Networks started calling for Ossoff around five minutes ago.
NBC is reporting IED’s found in the Capitol and Biden has called it “Insurrection, not protest”.

So.

That’s nice.

Oh, and Georgia state Capitol is surrounded, apparently.

[tomtom]

It’s impossible to get anything like full context from the Tv on my armchair - but it’s looking now more like a few hundred wondering what to do rather than thousands of well organised revolutionaries...

Sky just called Ossoff.

[petejh]

I'm sorry Pete, but that is complete bullshit.

?
Explain..

[Oldmanmatt]

Don’t sweat it Pete, I’d put money on you two talking at cross purposes in the heat etc.

It is apparently odd, that the FBI seem to have taken over the Capitol operation and not the Secret Service. Very heavily armed FBI HRT and SWAT agents are on scene. Considering how many top SS agents have been given the heave, before Biden arrives (some replacements apparently brought out of retirement), there must be some institutional distrust of the SS at play. They have their own SWAT and heavy units.

[andy popp]

https://twitter.com/DustinGiebel/status/1346928694833545216/photo/1

[Oldmanmatt]

One poor Sod. On his tod.
How the fuck is that “prepared” (despite the fact he looks like a serious unit).
Bloke deserves a medal.

https://twitter.com/igorbobic/status/1346911809274478594?s=21

Some of his oppos, on the other hand...
Still, do they look prepared to you?

https://twitter.com/phil_lewis_/status/1346932851229519884?s=21

[jwi]

https://twitter.com/DustinGiebel/status/1346928694833545216/photo/1

American Taliban

[petejh]

https://twitter.com/DustinGiebel/status/1346928694833545216/photo/1

If your point is how appalling the symbology of a confederate flag-carrying mob inside Capitol is then I'd fully agree with you. But no symbology is worth lighting the touch paper for, which is what a violent response and violent counter-response could do. If they're still there in 3 days they'll eventually be removed.  As TT says most of them looks like cultists and disaster tourists, not genuine revolutionaries. I hope Trump is having the consequences to him (because that's all he cares about) made very clear by adults in various security services.

[teestub]

It’s not and de-escalation is very likely the key approach.
The lack of guard, the fact that they (apparently) weren’t ready to stop exactly this, are the very odd aspects.
If the VA Guard deploy, are they going to find themselves opposing the DC guard?

Ah so the BLM protesters were not dangerous enough so they got treated like shit, but if you are actually dangerous you get the kid gloves?

Hope every one of their phones gets confiscated and everyone in all the vids they’re taking identified and charged.

[andy popp]

Explaining kid gloves for violent White Supremacist insurrectionists as "tactics."

[petejh]

It’s not and de-escalation is very likely the key approach.
The lack of guard, the fact that they (apparently) weren’t ready to stop exactly this, are the very odd aspects.
If the VA Guard deploy, are they going to find themselves opposing the DC guard?

Ah so the BLM protesters were not dangerous enough so they got treated like shit, but if you are actually dangerous you get the kid gloves?

It's 'wrong' but yes exactly this, welcome to the world.
It isn't fair, but you'd be a lunatic to want a massive armed counter-reaction to some heavy-handed enforcement of what looks to amount to an ill-thought through mob breaking into Capitol, when you could have more simple damage limitation instead.

[Oldmanmatt]

So, VA is sending both guard and State Troopers.
Maryland has just committed the same.
That’s the point at which Trump agreed (not his call) for the DC guard to be deployed. There has been some credible-ish intimation that the 25th was threatened, possibly by Pence and the Tortoise together. Nice rumour, hope it’s true.

The DOD thing is more complicated, if the DOD mobilise a State’s guard, it effectively nationalises the guard making them active duty troops, or regular army. There are laws against active duty troops operating on US soil and some nasty implications.
The States may deploy their guard, without crossing that Rubicon.
Something has gone on behind the scenes.

[teestub]

It's 'wrong' but yes exactly this, welcome to the world.
It isn't fair, but you'd be a lunatic to want a massive armed counter-reaction to some heavy-handed enforcement of what looks to amount to an ill-thought through mob breaking into Capitol, when you could have more simple damage limitation instead.

Cool, it’s a good learning point for BLM and other protest groups: get more people with guns on your side and you will be treated better by the police and other law enforcement.

[Oldmanmatt]

Explaining kid gloves for violent White Supremacist insurrectionists as "tactics."

Yes.

There might be more to it, they (Capitol Police, Metro ) might be complicit, time will tell.
However, yes, if you are overwhelmed, it is exactly what what you would have been trained to do.
Delay, stall the advance, evacuate the principles, cede the property, save the lives.
If there was no complicity, then the lack of effective barriers (and that has multiple meanings) is going to be questioned.
Large and heavily armed/kitted riot squads are as much a provocation as a deterrent. It is possible that a low key outer ring was intentional, but then I would have expect defence in depth, out of sight, behind the front lines.
I am gobsmacked to see a single officer trying to hold back a mob already inside.
I know the riot control training we got in the Navy is limited and a long time ago (the RN is tasked with just that in disaster relief operations, and I did the course as a PO (Seargent) as a stick commander). Even I can see this is off.
Talking to military friends, Yanks, over there or in Saudi at the moment, they’re screaming foul.

Still, what happened, was not implausible.

[tomtom]

I can see OMM’s logic but I think the police fucked up for tonight. Pure and simple. Whether that was bad intelligence - or deliberate is a different saga - that I bet is being investigated now.

What amazed me - is that for a big angry crowd etc... no one trashed the place... sure they took a few selfies in the speakers chair etc... but no ripping things off the walls or (no apparent) taking of souvenirs. Weird. Not saying that in a positive or negatvie way - just seemed weird.

[abarro81]

Next time you protest just remember to get all your mates to post Twitter photos of their AKs and you're golden

Looks like enforcement are now using tear gas and flashbangs so I'm not sure I buy Pete's suggestion. More like the local cops were either trump supporters or thought they were too outgunned and somehow hadn't planned for it so were better to wait.. So either dubious/complict or embarrassing.

[petejh]

Cool, it’s a good learning point for BLM and other protest groups: get more people with guns on your side and you will be treated better by the police and other law enforcement.

  I highly doubt they don't already know it, and are far less naïve than you're appearing to be by thinking the world works fairly in matters like this.

BLM protestors didn't have the overt backing of the country's president inciting them to violent action. Nor were BLM trying to retain governance of the US by foul means. Yet the BLM protests still led to mass violence across the country, between BLM and opposing groups of white supremacists and other nut jobs. This is potentially far more damaging.

edit, to add I also do think it's weird how lacking the defences of Capitol were, especially given they knew in advance about the protest. But once it kicked off you can't respond with lethal violence to that mob in that context without risking civil war.

[Oldmanmatt]

Next time you protest just remember to get all your mates to post Twitter photos of their AKs and you're golden

Looks like enforcement are now using tear gas and flashbangs so I'm not sure I buy Pete's suggestion. More like the local cops were either trump supporters or thought they were too outgunned and somehow hadn't planned for it so were better to wait.. So either dubious/complict or embarrassing.

You might gather that I’m ploughing through vids at a rate of knots, to get a handle on exactly that. There is certainly some difficult to explain footage out there:
https://twitter.com/jpegjoshua/status/1346920941301981184?s=21

I’m definitely not ruling out complicity from Capitol police and I suspect that’s why the FBI came in. I think it is the FBI using gas and flash bangs, not Cap or Metro.
I’ve asked, but it’s a case of people asking other people, closer too and then getting Chinese whispers back.
But the drums are beating around the jungle tonight. 

[mrjonathanr]

thought they were too outgunned and somehow hadn't planned for it

Bizarre in view of the fact he said earlier in the day they were all 'going to march down Pennsylvania Ave' to help the senators 'be bold'. Inflammatory stuff.

[abarro81]

I could certainly believe complicity from the local crew now being overruled by FBI or whoever. Even if the complicity were just "accidentally" understaffing the situation so that appeasement becomes the best solution

[teestub]

They’ve known this was coming for ages, it’s not like it was a surprise gathering! Worth comparing with pics of the National Guard out in force in DC before the BLM protests even got started, not attempting to close the stable door once the horse was out.

Guardian live feed also makes it sound like protesters used pepper spray on the police to gain access to the Capitol!

[Oldmanmatt]

I really think Miller and Trump had their hand forced with the guard. There was no requirement for federal release or approval for deployment, the matter rests with the District (or State) officials.
The military reporting is worth reading:

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/national-guard-activated-pro-trump-mob/?fbclid=IwAR0gRwEXwWdH03xrRf8Qs2bYTZnYkX-cAqVzbnMYbwiXz5wUj3iKmj955KU

[spidermonkey09]

Anyone willing to say Trump isn't a fascist now? Toby? It isn't like nobody told us what he was.

Now I've got that off my chest, it is simultaneously true that the police fucked up massively letting it get that far but once it did, a softly softly approach was the only way out. However, if that was a BLM protest there would be bodies all over the steps. Pretty hard to avoid the comparison.

[petejh]

He's the epitome of the phrase 'banality of evil'. A banal man creating toxicity all around him.

Interesting that reports are emerging that vice president Pence was responsible for activating the DC national guard to support Capitol police. Not Trump, as he claimed (surprise surprise..).

Impeachment never looked closer.