[mrjonathanr]

Quite.

All these circular arguments are also an attempt to influence public perception and what people will accept. So the question remains. He couldn’t, could he...?

[Offwidth]

Nevermind Trump, he is a known loon, this is the official Republican party output on the election. Incredibly scary stuff:

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1329771592440836104?s=20

[Will Hunt]

Nevermind Trump, he is a known loon, this is the official Republican party output on the election. Incredibly scary stuff:

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1329771592440836104?s=20

Back to an earlier thought. At what point is one of these people going to do something criminal? I presume there must be laws against obstructing lawful elections or the peaceful transition of power? At what point does the line get crossed?

I'm not expecting anybody hear to know unless it happens to be a well known area of the law, but if anybody reads anything about it then please do link it here.

[Oldmanmatt]

Opinion, however, he makes a point about the vulnerability of the Electors and the Electoral College:
https://eand.co/trump-cant-be-president-so-he-s-burning-down-american-democracy-ea7dbcb32f86

[DAVETHOMAS90]

"It is my Great Honor to announce that General Michael T. Flynn has been granted a Full Pardon. Congratulations to @GenFlynn and his wonderful family, I know you will now have a truly fantastic Thanksgiving!"

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) November 25, 2020

.. something about that set of initials ..

Donald Trump has pardoned his former national security adviser Michael Flynn, who pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI during an investigation into Russian meddling in the 2016 election.

David J Thomas.

[Offwidth]

A bit of end of the week entertainment. Trump's election fraud investigation group gets sued by a doner for shit performance

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/28/trump-donor-election-fraud-sues-money-back

[dunnyg]

Sounds like they are in deep shwarma

[Offwidth]

Some exit poll demographics

https://www.brookings.edu/research/2020-exit-polls-show-a-scrambling-of-democrats-and-republicans-traditional-bases/

For those who think Trump supporters are mostly a bit dim, he retained a (reduced) majority in white male college graduates.

[Offwidth]

The election count is amazingly still unfinished but Biden's margin in the popular vote is increasing...  more than 7 million now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election

The two Senate seat run-offs in Georgia are almost as surreal as the main contest. If the Democrats win both they will control the Senate and can make real change.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/dec/07/georgia-runoff-debate-dominated-by-trumps-baseless-claims-of-election

The Republicans are favourite on betting odds but the gap is closing.

https://bookies.com/news/senate-races-odds-tracker

[Oldmanmatt]

Ooph...

Taking bets on a Coup.

I wonder if he might actually order Biden’s arrest?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election-2020/biden-trump-transition-pentagon-b1776204.html?utm_content=Echobox&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook&fbclid=IwAR3a-kL9sMkwBJ5kJLME27SDIesA5vTahbzTXwEw6Z-egwKOUuwspaaFSRE#Echobox=1608303891

[seankenny]

The following short essays are sort of peripheral to Trump, or maybe Trump is just the high end political expression of the things these essays talk about. Perhaps we should just have an "Aggghh, America!" thread instead...

The importance of bro-culture:

https://patrickwyman.substack.com/p/bro-culture-fitness-chivalry-and

The American gentry:

https://patrickwyman.substack.com/p/american-gentry


One billion Americans (this is just a book review):
https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/book-review-one-billion-americans

[mrjonathanr]

Cheers. Not convinced by his rather reductive analysis of chivalry, but the rest of the bro culture thing was worth a read.

[moose]

The bro culture piece reminds me of one  of the more enjoyable books I've recently read, Muscle Confessions of an Unlikely Body Builder by Samuel Fussell. 

An Ivy leaguer (his father is supposedly rather eminent) develops a terror of muggers and after seeing a photo of Arnie decides that being large would be a good deterrent.  He then abruptly gives up academia and spends his inheritance to become a full-time bodybuilder.  It's fairly old (1991) but the characters and scenes on the gyms he goes to are very "bro" - cartoonish but disturbingly intense.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/510493.Muscle

http://brothersjudd.com/index.cfm/fuseaction/reviews.detail/book_id/493/Muscle%3A%20Conf.htm

[Oldmanmatt]

I recognise myself in many aspects of “Bro culture”.
I recognise many of my friends, in particular amongst the “formers” in that group.
But, very few of them are politically right leaning. A few, for sure, and even a couple that now live on “restricted” on FB, are only still “friends” out of a (somewhat hard to explain) loyalty (I think twice about joining the annual(ish) reunion type stuff, if I know they’ll be attending).

I’d have to put this forum onto that spectrum too...

Certainly ticks a few of the boxes.

Perhaps it’s more that the “Bro Culture” he describes is a rather more extreme thing, than he actually suggests and a little more niche, too.

I recognise the Total fucking dickhead more extreme version, certainly from my military days, but as an oddity and outlier, rather than the norm.

[andy popp]

The American Gentry piece is absolutely spot on, at least for contemporary America (I find the historical comparisons interesting but some of them are probably necessary a little stretched). I encountered this class up close and was kind of fascinated and appalled. I think the author's right that they've been sociologically overlooked.

[Bradders]

I recognise myself in many aspects of “Bro culture”.
I recognise many of my friends, in particular amongst the “formers” in that group.
But, very few of them are politically right leaning.

Yeah I ticked pretty much every box on the bro culture list, which was a bit weird before I realised that it's really much more than being pigeon holed by a handful of aspects of your overall identity.

[teestub]

Yeah I ticked pretty much every box on the bro culture list, which was a bit weird before I realised that it's really much more than being pigeon holed by a handful of aspects of your overall identity.

I’m surprised that I’ve managed to absorb so many different bits of bro culture and somehow avoided becoming a right wing gun nut!

[seankenny]

I encountered this class up close and was kind of fascinated and appalled.

I would enjoy reading more about this, if you can be bothered.

[Yossarian]

The bro culture piece reminds me of one  of the more enjoyable books I've recently read, Muscle Confessions of an Unlikely Body Builder by Samuel Fussell. 

An Ivy leaguer (his father is supposedly rather eminent) develops a terror of muggers and after seeing a photo of Arnie decides that being large would be a good deterrent.  He then abruptly gives up academia and spends his inheritance to become a full-time bodybuilder.  It's fairly old (1991) but the characters and scenes on the gyms he goes to are very "bro" - cartoonish but disturbingly intense.

I remember this being one of Houdini’s recommended reads. I thought it was brilliant. Quite a bizarre rabbit hole to get sucked down...

[andy popp]

I encountered this class up close and was kind of fascinated and appalled.

I would enjoy reading more about this, if you can be bothered.

Sure, I'll try and write something tomorrow.

[andy popp]

I encountered this class up close and was kind of fascinated and appalled.

I would enjoy reading more about this, if you can be bothered.

Sure, I'll try and write something tomorrow.

Hmm, I'd forgotten about this.

In the meantime, here's a great piece of long form journalism on the US in the age of Corona (not directly Trump related, but very worthwhile):

https://features.propublica.org/waterloo-meatpacking/as-covid-19-ravaged-this-iowa-city-officials-discovered-meatpacking-executives-were-the-ones-in-charge/?fbclid=IwAR1smWM7Qet8fJhoVxRzToojzoxx7sK3WWHM1k-O2KOqbZV0Wb8MlDkUABo

[SA Chris]

Interesting read.

This one happened less than 5 miles from me

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-55078782

[A.Greenhorne]

I encountered this class up close and was kind of fascinated and appalled.

I would enjoy reading more about this, if you can be bothered.

Sure, I'll try and write something tomorrow.

Hmm, I'd forgotten about this.

In the meantime, here's a great piece of long form journalism on the US in the age of Corona (not directly Trump related, but very worthwhile):

https://features.propublica.org/waterloo-meatpacking/as-covid-19-ravaged-this-iowa-city-officials-discovered-meatpacking-executives-were-the-ones-in-charge/?fbclid=IwAR1smWM7Qet8fJhoVxRzToojzoxx7sK3WWHM1k-O2KOqbZV0Wb8MlDkUABo

Certainly an interesting read. Some nice selective journalism on that site too.

[mrjonathanr]

Some nice selective journalism on that site too.

Interesting. Specifically what, and why?

[A.Greenhorne]

Unbalanced. For example I could find no mention of the Biden corruption scandal

https://www.hsgac.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/HSGAC_Finance_Report_FINAL.pdf