[Bradders]

The Trump voter fraud reporting hotline might be my favourite thing about all this. Of course, Democrats are doing the decent thing:

https://twitter.com/herosnvrdie69/status/1324599463378329601?s=19

[Offwidth]

Four seasons of comedy gold in a day

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/08/the-other-four-seasons-trump-team-holds-press-conference-at-suburban-garden-centre

[andy popp]

The truly amazing thing is that they decided it was better to go ahead rather than try and come up with some excuse.

[GraemeA]

The Trump voter fraud reporting hotline might be my favourite thing about all this. Of course, Democrats are doing the decent thing:

https://twitter.com/herosnvrdie69/status/1324599463378329601?s=19

The email address she gives is genius 

[TobyD]

But large swathes of USA, are not going to be jumping for joy like British liberals are. They know from bitter experience what Biden’s politics are. ...

I’m still of the opinion that ultimately people will vote in economic self interest. Not for who has the best manners.

I largely agree with this. Younger people tend to be more idealistic, but pretty much everyone becomes pragmatic to some extent as they get older. I'd give Biden a chance, but the 'right' way for politics to go certainly isn't to lurch to the left in reaction to populism. If that happens, whether to the Democrats or the British Labour party, they'll lose.
By and large, people will vote for competence over lofty ideals.

[TobyD]

[ No doubt you will read Gerard Baker in The Times tomorrow, where for the third day running he will bitterly argue that actually Trump won the argument. When Corbyn made that laughable claim last year no doubt you rightly laughed him out of town.

This isn't meant to be aimed at you specifically but it is increasingly winding me up how this is somehow turning into a post mortem for the Democrats when they have successfully prised an autocratic leader from the white House. No mean feat.

Well, I agree with your opinion on Baker, he clearly has figured out that he can get paid by writing the same article 3 times a week, and it isn't even very good. In fact I think a majority of the times columnists are a bit crap.
You're right about Corbyn as well, but I think that the democrats do need to have a serious think if they're to stay in office for more than 4 years. They defeated a populist who alienated many voters by saying lots of incredibly stupid things. A more astute, controlled and calculated populist (like Ivanka?) might not make such errors, and do a lot better. I'm just saying that they need to be a lot more than just 'not Trump' next time.

[Sasquatch]

But large swathes of USA, are not going to be jumping for joy like British liberals are. They know from bitter experience what Biden’s politics are. ...

I’m still of the opinion that ultimately people will vote in economic self interest. Not for who has the best manners.

I disagree.  They have largely been conned into believing that republican and Trumps tax and economic plans are to their benefit.  So they are voting in what they have been conned into believing is in their self interest.  Nuanced difference, but still very different.  For example, Trump's tax cuts were supposed to benefit small business.  As a small business owner, they increased my taxes by about 5%.  When you look at the numbers, you see this over and over.  Those making over 400K disproportionately benefited from his tax cuts. 

One problem we have at the moment is that neither side represents small business or lower/middle class workers.  They both say they do, but their actions tell otherwise.

[Somebody's Fool]

Yes, I didn’t mean it objectively.

Just what the voters themselves will believe to be economic self interest based on information and experience they have.

[Ged]

4 years ago, I remember my main feeling after hearing that he had won, was one of dismay that I'd have to spend the next 4 years hearing from him and about him. My big hope now is that the media will not give him a platform for all the shit he's bound to keep on spouting, and just let him fade into obscurity. I realise this is a big ask.

In the name of doing our bit to make that happen, any chance this thread title can be changed to something like "US politics", so that it doesn't focus around him, without removing the interesting conversation about the general state of things over there.

[Will Hunt]

I found this an interesting read. When understanding Trump's appeal to his voters it's useful to characterise him not only as a populist but as a nationalist.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/his-wild-swing-missed-but-donald-trump-has-beaten-america-into-his-image-32s7gpcmz?shareToken=9a4f7b8d11a4a167aeb0d4d6cd37c47e


I'm not sure I really followed some of the discussion above. Although I'm delighted to see Trump beaten it does feel like a very fragile victory. The article linked above points out that Trump did differently to most politicians in that once he took power he did nothing to build an alliance of voters around him, instead choosing to insult and antagonise anybody who didn't adore him. Hence a huge turnout to vote against him. If Biden's presidency is going to be lacklustre and a different, more politically astute nationalist is on the ballot next time we could easily see Biden beaten. Trump's supporters currently feel as we did the morning after the Brexit vote. They'll still be hurting in 4 years time.

[Wood FT]

4 years ago, I remember my main feeling after hearing that he had won, was one of dismay that I'd have to spend the next 4 years hearing from him and about him. My big hope now is that the media will not give him a platform for all the shit he's bound to keep on spouting, and just let him fade into obscurity. I realise this is a big ask.

In the name of doing our bit to make that happen, any chance this thread title can be changed to something like "US politics", so that it doesn't focus around him, without removing the interesting conversation about the general state of things over there.

+1

No having to hear about the shower that is the Trump family is the light at the end of the tunnel for me. Fat chance like.

[Bradders]

+2

I was thinking of starting a "Biden" thread, but makes a lot more sense to just have a general US politics one.

[petejh]

Could just change the thread title to ‘Cunt’. Keeps it relevant.
So very pleased he’s beaten, plus the bonus that he’s making himself look more embarrassing and pathetic with each day he continues his whining.

[SA Chris]

Seems apt, strike him from the record. One thread for US Politics, alone for UK politics.

I'm wondering at what point he will throw in the towel? I have visions of him losing the plot completely and them having to build a model of the Oval office in one of his hotels so he can happily sit there for the rest of his days, furiously tweeting into a disconnected mobile and writing out increasingly deranged executive orders in crayon on pieces of kitchen roll, which one of his children dutifully collects once a week when they have to visit him.

[Offwidth]

I found this an interesting read. When understanding Trump's appeal to his voters it's useful to characterise him not only as a populist but as a nationalist.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/his-wild-swing-missed-but-donald-trump-has-beaten-america-into-his-image-32s7gpcmz?shareToken=9a4f7b8d11a4a167aeb0d4d6cd37c47e


I'm not sure I really followed some of the discussion above. Although I'm delighted to see Trump beaten it does feel like a very fragile victory. The article linked above points out that Trump did differently to most politicians in that once he took power he did nothing to build an alliance of voters around him, instead choosing to insult and antagonise anybody who didn't adore him. Hence a huge turnout to vote against him. If Biden's presidency is going to be lacklustre and a different, more politically astute nationalist is on the ballot next time we could easily see Biden beaten. Trump's supporters currently feel as we did the morning after the Brexit vote. They'll still be hurting in 4 years time.

I'm not convinced about those arguments. I think Trump has changed Republican politics but he also rode a change that was happening anyway with the Tea Party and Neo Cons. I think he was a well known personality who effectively understood the shift to people accessing political opinion more from social media than TV news and that populism works with the less well educated who are struggling.

However, many people who voted for him will soon realise Biden is not bringing in socialism or stealing their rights (ie is not a genuine bogeyman for many ordinary conservative americans) and hopefully will bring them tangible benefits larger than a $200 tax cut. Trump's duped white poor massively outnumber his gun toting hick fans but I suspect the next popularist might struggle to get them to the polling station...I can't think of anyone with his public prominence who could do what he did (do not underestimate the success of Trump in increasing in numbers voting for him this time). US demographics are shifting to a better educated more diverse population so favour the Democrats. Covid is still to play out in more horror until January, further damaging Republican denialism of covid risk.  Obama shifted democrat campaigning to more smaller donations and a more local focus and the logical continuation of that in Georgia has already made a major change there and might even win the Democrats the Senate in January (odds are against this but are still significant) in which case real change can happen.

[GraemeA]

Four seasons of comedy gold in a day

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/08/the-other-four-seasons-trump-team-holds-press-conference-at-suburban-garden-centre

Check it out on google earth https://www.google.com/maps/place/Four+Seasons+Total+Landscaping/@40.0263236,-75.0304894,66m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x89c6b44c3cd2507b:0xf7a6fd9e9365a3be!8m2!3d40.0263236!4d-75.0302158

[Offwidth]

Very unhelpful as its currently closed

Being serious again for a moment.... more on Georgia as I think it is important.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/nov/09/stacey-abrams-georgia-senate-run-off-election

[spidermonkey09]

Agree with the call to rename the thread US Politics.

As he usually does, Gary Younge does a great job in this podcast of synthesising lots of points into a great argument. I never listen to him or read one of his pieces without learning something. Well worth a listen.

https://www.newstatesman.com/us-election-2020/2020/11/world-review-podcast-america-goes-joe

[TobyD]

Could just change the thread title to ‘Cunt’. Keeps it relevant.
So very pleased he’s beaten, plus the bonus that he’s making himself look more embarrassing and pathetic with each day he continues his whining.

Yes, he is.
In the well chosen words of the mayor of Philadelphia, he needs to put his big boy pants on.

[Sasquatch]

It will be interesting to see how the party politics plays out.  I get the impression that most people are kinda sick of both parties.  Hence trump's popularity. 

[Oldmanmatt]

I was wondering about all the “legal” challenges and his “legal fund”.

His campaign is massively in debt, isn’t it?
However his legal fund is just for his run of the mill supporters to chuck their stimulus cheques and hard earned wages into; not “real” sponsors in a position to demand quid-pro-quo. So, if most of his ~70M voters chucked a $10 at him, he’ll soon clear his campaign debt.

Bets on “legal challenges” evaporating once campaign debt is covered?

[SA Chris]

I get the impression that most people are kinda sick of both parties.  Hence trump's popularity.

See also "Brexit".

I was a bit shocked though, to see record turnout only being 66.9%? Is that of the voting population, or of registered voters?

[James Malloch]

I was wondering about all the “legal” challenges and his “legal fund”.

His campaign is massively in debt, isn’t it?
However his legal fund is just for his run of the mill supporters to chuck their stimulus cheques and hard earned wages into; not “real” sponsors in a position to demand quid-pro-quo. So, if most of his ~70M voters chucked a $10 at him, he’ll soon clear his campaign debt.

Bets on “legal challenges” evaporating once campaign debt is covered?

I read somewhere that the small print says that up to 50% of any donation could be used to pay off campaign debt. I can very much imagine it stopping once that’s gone...

[Offwidth]

Except the extra drama plays into better book, TV and speaking deals.

I just spotted the perfect illustration of why stop the count tactic was so crazy given the system. Alaska right now has only reported 58% of the registered count. California only 90%.

[petejh]

So, here's the 'evidence' that the vote count was fraudulent..

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/it-defies-logic-scientist-finds-telltale-signs-election-fraud-after-analyzing-mail-ballot
 

.. seems to boil down to 'anonymous data scientist thinks that Republican and Democrat voters should be equally represented in mail-in ballots, the fact they weren't proves it was rigged'..

Seems to be the definition of begging the question and circular reasoning:
The premise: 'Republicans didn't win, therefore it must be rigged'
assumes the desired truth: 'Republicans will win, if they lose it must be rigged'.