[andy popp]

Biden takes a lead of nearly 1000 in Georgia.

[Oldmanmatt]

Biden takes a lead of nearly 1000 in Georgia.

This is nuts.
Absolutely nothing can be called yet.

Even NC is still in play, with Trump only holding a 1.4 % lead and >4% of the vote to count.

Bit stressful, really.

[TobyD]

Watching that Trump address last night was chilling. The last stand of a fascist dictator hopefully.

I really think it's incorrect to call him a fascist. He panders to white supremacy, is certainly a racist, misogynistic, crass, illiterate and a wannabe autocrat, but I think that the most dangerous thing about his attacks on the electoral process are the licence that they give to far more unpleasant and dangerous rulers to ignore election results, and use any means they can get to hold onto power.
I really dislike Trump, but he's no Orban, Erdoghan or Putin. He hasn't actually imprisoned journalists, or assassinated political opponents. He is ultimately a reality TV star with a huge ego.

[Duma]

Had a few thoughts on this yesterday morning when I decided to switch off from the news for a while, nothing much changed since then apart from more hope in Georgia.
In order of confidence:
Alaska should be in trumps column already, lots of votes to count or no.
Nevada is safe, outstanding votes are urban and will break Biden.
N Carolina will stay with trump, it was always the biggest ask and outstanding votes are less favourable to the democrats than others.
Pennsylvania should end up blue, but is going to be worryingly close.
Arizona was called way too early by AP and Fox, still concerned by it.
Georgia i thought would stay red, in a race where Biden is only scraping home it seemed unlikely, especially with florida going to trump, but now who knows?

So any one of AZ, PA, or GA get Biden over the line. Think only the supreme Court can get trump in now

[Oldmanmatt]

Watching that Trump address last night was chilling. The last stand of a fascist dictator hopefully.

I really think it's incorrect to call him a fascist. He panders to white supremacy, is certainly a racist, misogynistic, crass, illiterate and a wannabe autocrat, but I think that the most dangerous thing about his attacks on the electoral process are the licence that they give to far more unpleasant and dangerous rulers to ignore election results, and use any means they can get to hold onto power.
I really dislike Trump, but he's no Orban, Erdoghan or Putin. He hasn't actually imprisoned journalists, or assassinated political opponents. He is ultimately a reality TV star with a huge ego.

To that last paragraph.
Only because he was a first term president in a long established “system” that prevented him from doing so. Given a weaker system of checks and balances at the start, or four more years of erosion of those systems; I feel he would do all of those things, without hesitation.
He is like those people, the system prevents him acting like it.

[spidermonkey09]

I really think it's incorrect to call him a fascist. He panders to white supremacy, is certainly a racist, misogynistic, crass, illiterate and a wannabe autocrat, but I think that the most dangerous thing about his attacks on the electoral process are the licence that they give to far more unpleasant and dangerous rulers to ignore election results, and use any means they can get to hold onto power.
I really dislike Trump, but he's no Orban, Erdoghan or Putin. He hasn't actually imprisoned journalists, or assassinated political opponents. He is ultimately a reality TV star with a huge ego.

Thats totally wrong as far as I'm concerned and emblematic of the entire problem. How much more white supremacy, racism, misogyny, autocracy, denial and subversion of the electoral process and democracy do you want to see before you start calling it fascist? You need to see journalists imprisoned and political opponents assassinated before you call him what he is? He is openly racist, and if you watch his speech/ramble from last night in full he relentlessly undermines democracy for 15 minutes. The only votes that count in his view are the ones for him. This sort of dancing around the facts has been a problem the last 4 years. He told us exactly what he was at the start. When people tell us what they are, we should listen.

In addition: what Matt said. You can quibble about what stage of fascism it is, early stage or whatever, but that is where this type of politics leads.

https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/1324491495903285250

[Offwidth]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/550046337547665409?s=20

[remus]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/550046337547665409?s=20

 

More classics here https://www.reddit.com/r/TrumpCriticizesTrump/

[ali k]

I really think it's incorrect to call him a fascist. I really dislike Trump, but he's no Orban, Erdoghan or Putin. He hasn't actually imprisoned journalists, or assassinated political opponents.

Given a weaker system of checks and balances at the start, or four more years of erosion of those systems; I feel he would do all of those things, without hesitation. He is like those people, the system prevents him acting like it.

^^THIS

...if you watch his speech/ramble from last night in full he relentlessly undermines democracy for 15 minutes. The only votes that count in his view are the ones for him.

^^AND THIS

Trump respects and admires people like Putin because they have what he craves. Completely unrestrained power.

[andy popp]

Biden takes a lead of 5500 in PA. This is all but done. I don't believe there is any chance Trump will concede.

[Will Hunt]

And that's all she wrote, folks.

[tomtom]

At last. There’ll probably be recounts in Georgia, WI and maybe PA that will rumble on for a bit. But most commentators can’t see WI changing and if he gets a similar or greater lead in PA likewise. And of course NE and AZ to be confirmed.

It’s been stressful - though a welcome break to watch this happening rather than the Covid news in the UK.

Mind you - that’s a bit like taking some crack instead of smack.

[Duma]

ABC have called it. Not AP yet though it seems.

Very interesting how the runoff in Georgia for the senate play out!

[andy popp]

The lead in PA is only going to keep growing and I just heard a hint it may well exceed the votes received since the election (but postmarked no later than the election and thus legal) blowing a hole in the Trump legal strategy.

[Oldmanmatt]

I was going to make some idle, throw away, crack about about it being all over barring the “wailing and gnashing of teeth”.

Then I realised I wasn’t 100% sure on the origin of the phrase.

It’s actually “weeping” not wailing, biblical (which is what I thought) New Testament and refers to the lamentations of the unjust when retribution/judgment arrives and (get this) derives from the hypothetical “Q source”!
A Q that somewhat predates the currently in vogue “source”.
Does anyone know if there is a connection, before I start off down another rabbit hole?

Ain’t Lockdown fun...

Oh, and that site Decision Desk? They called it:

[ali k]

I’m simultaneously elated but also petrified at what he may do in the next 2 months while he’s still in power. And what his supporters might do in the next few weeks.

[Anti]

This is interesting and only a minor victory for common sense - ultimately the closeness of this whole affair shows how divided America is and how deeply rooted their problems are. It seems that 50% of Americans are happy to overlook (if not endorse) undemocratic, sexist and dangerously racist behaviour.

[TobyD]

I really think it's incorrect to call him a fascist. He panders to white supremacy, is certainly a racist, misogynistic, crass, illiterate and a wannabe autocrat, but I think that the most dangerous thing about his attacks on the electoral process are the licence that they give to far more unpleasant and dangerous rulers to ignore election results, and use any means they can get to hold onto power.
I really dislike Trump, but he's no Orban, Erdoghan or Putin. He hasn't actually imprisoned journalists, or assassinated political opponents. He is ultimately a reality TV star with a huge ego.

Thats totally wrong as far as I'm concerned and emblematic of the entire problem. How much more white supremacy, racism, misogyny, autocracy, denial and subversion of the electoral process and democracy do you want to see before you start calling it fascist? You need to see journalists imprisoned and political opponents assassinated before you call him what he is? He is openly racist, and if you watch his speech/ramble from last night in full he relentlessly undermines democracy for 15 minutes. The only votes that count in his view are the ones for him. This sort of dancing around the facts has been a problem the last 4 years. He told us exactly what he was at the start. When people tell us what they are, we should listen.

In addition: what Matt said. You can quibble about what stage of fascism it is, early stage or whatever, but that is where this type of politics leads.

https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/1324491495903285250

It's not a bad arguments but I think that the dismissal of Trump as a facist too easily avoids engagement with the reasons why millions of people love him, and voted for him. They are certainly not all racists, misguided or stupid. When you look at the last 4 years a lot of his big talk is just that. No action. He's certainly dangerous, but he is not a dictator.

[spidermonkey09]

It's not a bad arguments but I think that the dismissal of Trump as a facist too easily avoids engagement with the reasons why millions of people love him, and voted for him. They are certainly not all racists, misguided or stupid. When you look at the last 4 years a lot of his big talk is just that. No action. He's certainly dangerous, but he is not a dictator.

You are conflating two completely different arguments. Not everyone who votes for a fascist is a fascist themselves. That is obvious. He has not been able to act like a dictator because of the structures in place that, thank god, prevent him from doing so. Do you really think he wouldn't be a dictator if he could? See Matts post.

With regard to why people voted for him, I have as much clue as anyone else; ie none. Starting from the premise that Trump voters are not stupid is great, but if you do that you have to give them agency and credit, and conclude that they knew what they were voting  for; which as we have previously discussed is a white supremacist, a racist, a misogynist and an autocrat. None of these things are hidden; they've been in plain sight for four years.

Either we conclude that his base is brainwashed, a bit dim, and voting along narrow personal interest lines (low tax, traditional values etc) ignorant of the wider consequences, or we conclude that his base are as smart as most and they are perfectly aware of what they are voting for; namely, a racist demagogue. I conclude the latter at this stage and hold them accountable as I would anyone else.

There has been some good commentary recently in centrist news sources (will post some links later if people are interested) about how whatever the result of an election, its the left that apparently has to do the soul searching. Perhaps this time the Republican Party and the Trump base ought to do some soul searching, seeing as this is on track to be an extremely solid win and a shut out in the popular vote. Republicans haven't won a popular vote since 2004. Its not a close election, its a slow one.

[Yossarian]

I really think it's incorrect to call him a fascist. He panders to white supremacy, is certainly a racist, misogynistic, crass, illiterate and a wannabe autocrat, but I think that the most dangerous thing about his attacks on the electoral process are the licence that they give to far more unpleasant and dangerous rulers to ignore election results, and use any means they can get to hold onto power.
I really dislike Trump, but he's no Orban, Erdoghan or Putin. He hasn't actually imprisoned journalists, or assassinated political opponents. He is ultimately a reality TV star with a huge ego.

Thats totally wrong as far as I'm concerned and emblematic of the entire problem. How much more white supremacy, racism, misogyny, autocracy, denial and subversion of the electoral process and democracy do you want to see before you start calling it fascist? You need to see journalists imprisoned and political opponents assassinated before you call him what he is? He is openly racist, and if you watch his speech/ramble from last night in full he relentlessly undermines democracy for 15 minutes. The only votes that count in his view are the ones for him. This sort of dancing around the facts has been a problem the last 4 years. He told us exactly what he was at the start. When people tell us what they are, we should listen.

In addition: what Matt said. You can quibble about what stage of fascism it is, early stage or whatever, but that is where this type of politics leads.

https://twitter.com/JYSexton/status/1324491495903285250

It's not a bad arguments but I think that the dismissal of Trump as a facist too easily avoids engagement with the reasons why millions of people love him, and voted for him. They are certainly not all racists, misguided or stupid. When you look at the last 4 years a lot of his big talk is just that. No action. He's certainly dangerous, but he is not a dictator.

It's no action because he has a infinitesimal attention span and absolutely no interest in anything requiring any sort of compound thought process. I'm not sure if anyone has read the Michael Wolff biographies, but the overriding impression is that anything resembling conventional work is entirely anathema to him. The Mexico wall is a classic example - he got people to come and explain how to do it, and apparently he zoned out within minutes. The only thing he cares about is whether or not everyone in the room thinks he's the most important person there.

[mrjonathanr]

I’m not sure I would agree with no action. Just maybe not the headline grabbing stuff he boasts about.
Withdrawal from nuclear accords, appointments within government and the Supreme Court. And the environment.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html

[andy popp]

Philly is partying!

https://twitter.com/HelenGymAtLarge/status/1324756446022639617

[Will Hunt]

Just a thought. I'm not sure what the situation is with anything illegal he might have done during his election or presidency, but is anything he's doing now illegal? Could he get sent down for obstructing the peaceful transition of power? If his supporters get violent could he be tried for inciting violence?

[205Chris]

Just a thought. I'm not sure what the situation is with anything illegal he might have done during his election or presidency, but is anything he's doing now illegal? Could he get sent down for obstructing the peaceful transition of power? If his supporters get violent could he be tried for inciting violence?

Whatever happens, you wouldn't rule out Trump stepping down at some point and Mike Pence becoming President. Mike then presidential pardons Donald for all his misdemeanours.

[Will Hunt]

I've not paid a huge amount of attention to Pence so not sure whether he might be implicated in anything criminal.
Would they be concerned that issuing a pardon is an admission of guilt?
With Trump being political dead wood, Pence might just drop him in hopes of retaining some credibility into the future?