UKBouldering.com

U-S-A! The American Politics Thread. (Read 506601 times)

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7108
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#275 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 01:09:45 pm
Will, I'm so glad you included Corbyn in that list.


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7108
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#276 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 01:23:16 pm
he might settle down

This isn't going to happen. People uttered these four words like a prayer over and over in the run up to the inauguration. There's no evidence for it yet. He's made good on everything he said he would do. Time to stop hoping and start resisting!

My daughter is currently playing Anne Frank in a local production, picked her up from her opening night last night. She was so excited, clutching a bouquet and laughing with the other cast members.
When we got to the car, she went quite for a minute and then said "It's happening again, isn't it? I mean Donald Trump?"
I couldn't say "no", I said I think it might be.
I wish I was convinced May is not in his "Club".


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

slackline

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 18863
  • Karma: +633/-26
    • Sheffield Boulder
#277 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 01:37:02 pm
Can't see Trump being reigned in by his right-hand man Bannon who nine months ago suggested war with China and again in the Middle East



 :no: :no: :no:

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7108
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#278 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 01:39:31 pm
Can't see Trump being reigned in by his right-hand man Bannon who nine months ago suggested war with China and again in the Middle East



 :no: :no: :no:

No hope of moderation, it seems...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ivanka-trump-jared-kushner-control-donald-trump-us-president-white-house-adviser-a7557436.html?cmpid=facebook-post


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5786
  • Karma: +623/-36
#279 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 04:31:38 pm
I think the really scary thing is, as Teaboy said, the loss of faith in institutions - particularly the judiciary but also the Commons. I never hear a good word said about an MP but I do believe that most of them, for all that it might be a position of privilege and involve some sticky decision making along the way, are working hard to do their best by those they represent. I really mean that. But a widespread knee-jerk mistrust of our institutions and political establishment is exactly what has fuelled the rise of dangerous populists like Farage, Trump and Corbyn.

Fine sentiments Will, but look to the words of many people over on the Brexit thread who explicitly express that they don't trust the UK government and would rather it was overseen by the EU governance and laws. I call that exactly what you're talking about - mistrust in institutions.
I find it a bit sad that ABarrows and others feel they have no trust in their own country's elected government to deal with domestic problems, and that they think looking beyond the shores of the UK for the answer is a preferable situation.

Teaboy

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1182
  • Karma: +72/-2
#280 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 05:08:33 pm

Fine sentiments Will, but look to the words of many people over on the Brexit thread who explicitly express that they don't trust the UK government and would rather it was overseen by the EU governance and laws. I call that exactly what you're talking about - mistrust in institutions.
I find it a bit sad that ABarrows and others feel they have no trust in their own country's elected government to deal with domestic problems, and that they think looking beyond the shores of the UK for the answer is a preferable situation.

I was actually talking about US institutions in my other reply (nor was I talking about people losing faith in them,I was talking about Trump *actually* undermining them or destroying them) but as we seem to have moved back to the UK/Brexit.........

Yes Pete, you are correct, people in the UK have lost faith in UK institutions but why is that sad? They are only 'ours' in terms of physical proximity. By most other measures they are not 'mine', I have very little in common with govt ministers or the higher levels of the civil service. I might not have language in common with the apparatchiks of the EU but from what I've seen we do have common values so from that PoV it seems more mine than a Tory led govt.

Nationality is only one of the ways we define our tribe, for some (most) it's the overriding one. Even for me it still is but I've seen enough for the pull of nationality to be overridden by the revulsion I feel towards the govt. I know govts are transitory but for one I don't see things changing soon. Secondly, it's not even about this govt, it's about the inability of this and successive govts to address the gulf between rich and poor. Those are the real tibes to which people belong and what the Brexiters did so well was to convince large swathes of the poor that:
a. Being nationalistic was sticking up for tribe poor
b. Gove, Johnson and Farage were also for tribe poor!
c. Voting Remain was a vote for the elites and therefore a vote for tribe rich.

anyway, back to Trump. What an absolute cu.....

fried

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1892
  • Karma: +60/-3

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20287
  • Karma: +642/-11
#282 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 06:56:31 pm
he might settle down

This isn't going to happen. People uttered these four words like a prayer over and over in the run up to the inauguration. There's no evidence for it yet. He's made good on everything he said he would do. Time to stop hoping and start resisting!

My daughter is currently playing Anne Frank in a local production, picked her up from her opening night last night. She was so excited, clutching a bouquet and laughing with the other cast members.

You probably know already - but Anne Franks family tried to emigrate (as refugees) to the USA in 1941 - but that was after the US had changed its rules to restrict Jewish refugees from Europe.. Resulting in her eventual death in a concentration camp in 1944...

Same type of rule as Trump - different religion...

A Jooser

Offline
  • **
  • menacing presence
  • Posts: 161
  • Karma: +19/-1
#283 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 08:38:22 pm


Quote
The wall just got ten pound dearer!
  :lol:

jfdm

Offline
  • ***
  • obsessive maniac
  • Posts: 496
  • Karma: +20/-3
#284 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 09:02:42 pm


Quote
The wall just got ten pound dearer!
  :lol:

Fantastic, love the lip sync. :smart:

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 8007
  • Karma: +633/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#285 Re: Trump
February 02, 2017, 10:16:53 pm
he might settle down

This isn't going to happen. People uttered these four words like a prayer over and over in the run up to the inauguration. There's no evidence for it yet. He's made good on everything he said he would do. Time to stop hoping and start resisting!

The guy who cuts my hair (I know what you're thinking. "The guy" is a real human, not a pudding bowl) is a fantastic socialist but also one of the populist crew. He plainly stated to me tonight that he would rather have a principled party that didn't take power than a pragmatic one that did. He thinks Blair is worse than Thatcher for his centralising of the Labour party. He says he doesn't trust politicians any more.
I asked him, "Who's the most trustworthy politician on the planet right now?"
"Eeerrr. <Insert name, can't remember who it was>?"
"No. The world's most trustworthy politician is Donald Trump. He made a tonne of campaign promises and he is fulfilling every last one of them, regardless of his tanking approval ratings and whether they may be pragmatic or workable. Build a wall, tick. Repeal the ACA, tick. Stop immigration from muslim majority countries, tick."

Let's have a bit more pragmatism shall we? Sorry, that was a continuation of my earlier post but I thought it worth posting.


I think the really scary thing is, as Teaboy said, the loss of faith in institutions - particularly the judiciary but also the Commons. I never hear a good word said about an MP but I do believe that most of them, for all that it might be a position of privilege and involve some sticky decision making along the way, are working hard to do their best by those they represent. I really mean that. But a widespread knee-jerk mistrust of our institutions and political establishment is exactly what has fuelled the rise of dangerous populists like Farage, Trump and Corbyn.

Fine sentiments Will, but look to the words of many people over on the Brexit thread who explicitly express that they don't trust the UK government and would rather it was overseen by the EU governance and laws. I call that exactly what you're talking about - mistrust in institutions.
I find it a bit sad that ABarrows and others feel they have no trust in their own country's elected government to deal with domestic problems, and that they think looking beyond the shores of the UK for the answer is a preferable situation.

I think you know you're misrepresenting the issue. The EU does not replace our parliament, it is an addition to it. Our government can and still does legislate independent of the European parliament. We influence EU legislation as it is being written, vote on it along with our neighbours, and then enact the directives which the EU decrees. I don't see what's so disagreeable about that.

Fultonius

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4331
  • Karma: +138/-3
  • Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
    • Photos
#286 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 11:23:12 am
Brexit, Trump, Big Data?  What's the link? 



How much impact it had who knows. Very clever, very scary and very important to understand the impact it could have on future elections.

Paul B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 9628
  • Karma: +264/-4
#287 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 11:35:24 am
Unexpectedly there are many counter pieces to the Cambridge Analytica story (which I found very interesting on first read).

Fultonius

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4331
  • Karma: +138/-3
  • Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
    • Photos
#288 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 11:59:40 am
Care to share them? I'm sure if I google
Quote
counter pieces to the Cambridge Analytica story
I'll get a lot of hits, most of which will be nonsense. Any reliable ones?

Fultonius

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4331
  • Karma: +138/-3
  • Was strong but crap, now weaker but better.
    • Photos
#289 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 12:38:11 pm
It did seem a little "too good to be true" (or too bad).

The only counter arguments I've so far read seem to state "they can't have had the influence they say they had because of X,Y and Z" but X, Y and Z are not that convincing either. Jury's out both ways.

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20287
  • Karma: +642/-11
#290 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 12:40:30 pm
Its an idea rather too like one of the plot lines from the last season of House of Cards to be 100% plausible...

But, I guess in politics the game of incremental gains is relevant ~ so every 0.1% counts.. or can count.

Interesting that Facebook posted record ad revenue in the last quarter. $10Bn Profit (thats profit not turnover) on Ads last year...

Paul B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 9628
  • Karma: +264/-4
#291 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 12:48:01 pm
Care to share them? I'm sure if I google
Quote
counter pieces to the Cambridge Analytica story
I'll get a lot of hits, most of which will be nonsense. Any reliable ones?

Sorry I'm at work which prevents me doing so.

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7108
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#292 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 12:52:00 pm
And trying to work out where the Futon we're heading (being dragged) here is getting tiresome.
Did I hear "He" has been threatening Iran again overnight?

Surprising to see who are aligning themselves against him:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/koch-brothers-donald-trump-clash-resistance-conservative-billionaires-network-us-president-charles-a7560706.html?cmpid=facebook-post

So, I rather enjoyed staying on Ascension, but I was wondering if my acquaintances better versed in Climate science could advise me as to the future habitability of the Falkland islands? I also rather liked it there, but it can be a tad bleak of a winter. Any chance of a more Mediterranean climate there in a decade or so? Should I pack Lettuce seeds (if I can find any, of course)?


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

slackline

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 18863
  • Karma: +633/-26
    • Sheffield Boulder
#293 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 01:00:44 pm
Brexit, Trump, Big Data?  What's the link? 

...

How much impact it had who knows. Very clever, very scary and very important to understand the impact it could have on future elections.

Some background on the development of the work here.  Penultimate paragraph has statement from Cambridge Analytica that they do not use data from Farcebook.

petejh

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5786
  • Karma: +623/-36
#294 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 01:47:12 pm
Brexit, Trump, Big Data?  What's the link? 



How much impact it had who knows. Very clever, very scary and very important to understand the impact it could have on future elections.


My partner works on this. She's a data analyst working with Hadoop, big data etc. In her words:
''So i build the big data connections between cable info and household data. Funny to see Nielsen and Experian logos in the presentation...i'm working on them now! ....Experian data is scary...household files that provide address, no.of people in a house, their age, salary, debt, pets, no.of cars, if they're expecting a baby...when its due...if they've applied to move house...the details are scary!! We then match it to media data, the cookies associated to that house, sites and pages visited, their cable TV viewings...its a full behavioral catalogue built up by matching huge, expensive datasets....and its really scary!''


I try to have a lo-profile.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2017, 01:57:53 pm by petejh »

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 8007
  • Karma: +633/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#295 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 03:46:32 pm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38853850/did-donald-trump-adviser-kellyanne-conway-just-invent-a-massacre

When I was a kid and I read 1984 I remember thinking it ludicrous that the party could say something had happened when it actually hadn't and people would believe unquestioningly.

What the fuck is going on?

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29255
  • Karma: +632/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
#296 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 04:29:56 pm
Ties in quite well to this (from Mick on FB)

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/02/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman-trump-orwell-huxley

I think I need to seek out the book

Oldmanmatt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • At this rate, I probably won’t last the week.
  • Posts: 7108
  • Karma: +368/-17
  • Largely broken. Obsolete spares and scrap only.
    • The Boulder Bunker climbing centre
#297 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 04:34:37 pm
Ties in quite well to this (from Mick on FB)

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2017/feb/02/amusing-ourselves-to-death-neil-postman-trump-orwell-huxley

I think I need to seek out the book

Only available as an audio book on iTunes, annoyingly.
I read that article over breakfast; worryingly on the money.
You can pick up "Brave New World" for 1.49 FA's in iBook...

Oh my God! The Fu%#ing irony!


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29255
  • Karma: +632/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
#298 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 04:38:13 pm
I read both at high school, is that likely to happen now? I'd like to think so.

Feel the bitter taste of irony on your tongue.

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20287
  • Karma: +642/-11
#299 Re: Trump
February 03, 2017, 06:49:24 pm

So, I rather enjoyed staying on Ascension, but I was wondering if my acquaintances better versed in Climate science could advise me as to the future habitability of the Falkland islands? I also rather liked it there, but it can be a tad bleak of a winter. Any chance of a more Mediterranean climate there in a decade or so? Should I pack Lettuce seeds (if I can find any, of course)?


Not a climate scientist - but I bit at this thought :)

Falkands are at pretty much the same lattitude as Devon/Cornwall - but no gulf stream to keep them warm. So similar length days/nights as you have - but given the size/proximity/amount of cold shit (ice etc..) in Antarctica what goes on there will have a pretty profound influence on life. From memory and reading (probably Shackleton!) there is a strong atmospheric circulation pattern around Antarctica - which drives the very strong winds through the Capes - Also less/no continental intrusion on these circulations (aside from the bottom of S.America) so they can whistle around and around with no obstructions. Maybe it can get a bit more like Faroes/Shetlands with less of a seasonal day/night imbalance... Though its probably not that far off Faroes already.

From a global warming perspective - its bits of Greenland/Arctic that have seen massive (4-5 degree) rises in the last 50 years - I don't think the Antarctic is affected anything like as much (please correct me if wrong).. So I'd suggest buying up some land in Greenland if you want somewhere getting warmer.

The furthest south I've been is Invercargil on S.Island New Zealand and that was a reasonably uninspiring place (and only 46deg south)..

My Climate change business investment tip - would be to buy a chunk of presently average South facing farmland on the East Yorkshire Wolds. This will make EXCELLENT vineyard land in 10-20 years time.. Chalky soil, bit of relief, South facing, 600mm rainfall a year... got all the right numbers for some viticulture...

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal