[Oldmanmatt]

🤡

https://www.outsideonline.com/2152476/everything-thats-wrong-billionaires-doomsday-survival-plan?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=facebookpost


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[Oldmanmatt]

I would assume this could be taken as the Royal Family's position on Trump. The second veiled repudiation in as many days.
This republican is pleasantly surprised.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/prince-charles-donald-trump-warning-right-populism-dark-days-thought-for-the-day-a7489876.html?cmpid=facebook-post


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[Will Hunt]

Unfortunately that's a month old now, but obviously still relevant.

[seankenny]

Yes, didn't mean to imply he wasn't crazed but point out he is truly a "Bond villain"; in as much as there is a sharp intellect behind the lunacy.


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

You may enjoy this piece on Bannon

http://crookedtimber.org/2017/01/11/the-political-thought-of-stephen-k-bannon/#more-41389

"Putting it all together, his worldview comes across as a fairly incoherent hodge-podge of incompatible ideologies whose common thread is hatred of elites. One can speculate that Trump was drawn to Bannon because Bannon shared Trump’s sense of the political opportunities ripe to be exploited of European-style right-wing populism... Beyond this strategic instinct or insight, neither of them seems to have any particularly coherent idea of what they believe in, apart from the notion of a conspiracy on the part of a sinister liberal-cosmopolitan elite...

"As the statement of a political philosophy, one has to say that it is pretty shallow and poorly thought-through... It suggests to me that people whose whole life revolves around the making of money and the consolidating of power (including media power)—and this is true of Bannon no less than Trump—haven’t had the time to reflect on what their actual political principles are, or didn’t think it was worth bothering about."

Do I need to point out the similarity between this and Brexit, which has been so carefully thought through that barely a single supporter can point to the unjust laws we are labouring under, and none of the higher-ups seems to have had a clear post-referendum plan...?

[petejh]

Do I need to point out the similarity between this and Brexit, which has been so carefully thought through that barely a single supporter can point to the unjust laws we are labouring under, and none of the higher-ups seems to have had a clear post-referendum plan...?

<Off topic.> If you want to build flimsy straw-men and then knock them down them then that's your choice but I don't think it helps your case. Because I don't think it's correct to say most brexiters thought the laws made by the EU were 'unjust'. More that they simply didn't want to be subject to laws made by the EU nor governed by the EU. Understandable motives, which are harder to attack than attacking a belief that EU laws are 'unjust'.

As to a plan, it's hard to have a clear detailed plan for something as dynamic and inter-tangled as leaving the EU (which has never been done before). That's why negotiations happen and why they take years - the plan will change a thousand times between now and the end of talks. As anyone who's done much planning knows, any 'plan' doesn't survive first contact with reality. But again don't let that stop you using the lack of a detailed plan in your case against brexit.

In other news it'll be interesting to see what the BofE growth forecast is in their quarterly report released tomorrow.. August forecast: 0.8% growth for 2017. November forecast: revised to 1.4% growth for 2017. February forecast for 2017 growth: could it actually more than double the forecast made post brexit - a forecast out by 100%? It's looking likely.
Again, don't let the economy's unforeseen strong performance and the Bank of England's new cautiously upbeat outlook fool you. Clearly the governor is either wrong (quite possible, given their pre and immediate post-brexit forecasts), or dancing to the tune of his political masters, (also quite possible, given their behavior pre referendum ).

[mrjonathanr]

edit: deleted as totally off topic

[tomtom]

Is it me - or maybe the bit of Manchester I live in - or does everything seem to have got a fair bit more expensive recently?

Pete - that paragraph on planning..... really?

Edit. Piss - thought this was the EU thread. Sorry folks... carry on tangerine man.

[jfdm]

Is it me - or maybe the bit of Manchester I live in - or does everything seem to have got a fair bit more expensive recently?

Pete - that paragraph on planning..... really?

Edit. Piss - thought this was the EU thread. Sorry folks... carry on tangerine man.

The grey area between Trump and Brexit!
Trumps immigration policy pales into insignificance when compared to Brexit immigration blue sky thinking, I won't use the term plans as Pete has said there isn't a need for one. I am sure mega companies around the world are taking notes about how to do business without a plan, sorry with blue sky thinking. When I am next asked at work for planning I'll use the phrase, "I don't plan because it won't survive first contact"- this is a real tangible Brexit positive.

Tomtom the price of things look at petrol. Gone up a lot since Christmas.
Got some genius climbing shoes, wrong size, sent back, new shoes were an extra 10er.
Could be 101 reasons why, but did cost me more.

[Will Hunt]

won't use the term plans as Pete has said there isn't a need for one. I am sure mega companies around the world are taking notes about how to do business without a plan, sorry with blue sky thinking. When I am next asked at work for planning I'll use the phrase, "I don't plan because it won't survive first contact"- this is a real tangible Brexit positive.

This isn't what Pete said. I don't agree with Pete's viewpoint but if you're going to argue with him then do it properly.

[andy popp]

I won't use the term plans as Pete has said there isn't a need for one. I am sure mega companies around the world are taking notes about how to do business without a plan, sorry with blue sky thinking. When I am next asked at work for planning I'll use the phrase, "I don't plan because it won't survive first contact"

I have a friend and colleague who wrote a book called Strategy without Design that, in essence, argued this - that companies should forget about trying to strategise and employ a 'wayfaring' mindset instead (OK, I know planning and strategy aren't synonymous). A consultant in one of the Nordic countries got hold of it and became totally enamoured. He started telling all his clients that they should just rip up all their strategies. It'll come as no surprise to hear he got the axe pronto.

In any case, Will is right that this was a misrepresentation of what Pete was saying.

[jfdm]

won't use the term plans as Pete has said there isn't a need for one. I am sure mega companies around the world are taking notes about how to do business without a plan, sorry with blue sky thinking. When I am next asked at work for planning I'll use the phrase, "I don't plan because it won't survive first contact"- this is a real tangible Brexit positive.

This isn't what Pete said. I don't agree with Pete's viewpoint but if you're going to argue with him then do it properly.

Not wanting to argue with Pete or anybody else .

[andy popp]

Trumps immigration policy pales into insignificance when compared to Brexit immigration blue sky thinking

This is to woefully underestimate what is happening in the US.

[jfdm]

Trumps immigration policy pales into insignificance when compared to Brexit immigration blue sky thinking

This is to woefully underestimate what is happening in the US.

It is terrible what is happening in America, and I am worried about the way things will go in the future. The point I'm trying to make is that Trump has restricted movement on religious grounds to eight countries for the next 3 months.. Where as Brexit wants to stop the free movement of people from across the EU - 28 countries to U.K. Brexit could be a more extreme version of what is happening in America.

The "first contact" idea was spun earlier in the week/last week by politicians, probably David Davies (ex military). Yes Pete is right that things will change a lot as things proceed. I hope that once sabre rattling is out of the way that compromise can be found and the result a good one for all involved.

[slackline]

Trump to focus counter-extremism program solely on Islam - sources

[petejh]

The point I'm trying to make is that Trump has restricted movement on religious grounds to eight countries for the next 3 months.. Where as Brexit wants to stop the free movement of people from across the EU - 28 countries to U.K. Brexit could be a more extreme version of what is happening in America.

I'll just quickly point out that this is completely untrue, the UK doesn't want to stop free movement of people any more than do Canada, New Zealand, Chile or any number of other countries want to stop the free movement of people from the EU27 (not 28).
When you go on holiday to Canada do you think they're being xenophobic racists by asking you to fill out a 3-month visitor visa and to see your passport? Likewise when you work in a foreign country, as I have (Canada and NZ), do you think it's xenophobic and racist when they ask you to apply for a work visa?

That's very very different from a complete ban on movement based on religion.

I know it's the Trump thread but less hot air please.

[tomtom]

So Pete - if we look at working rather than jollies..

my Kiwi cousins pay c.£10k each for a visa to work in the U.K.  But it's no cost for anyone in the EU bloc. Trying to read the Brexit runes it looks highly likely that something similar will happen...

[dave]

When you go on holiday to Canada do you think they're being xenophobic racists by asking you to fill out a 3-month visitor visa and to see your passport?

Canada don't require UK citizens to have a Visa to visit.

[tomtom]

I've been veering off topic. But dragging it back - did anyone else see C4 news last night talking to voters in Stoke? A few there who wanted Trump in charge in the U.K... [emoji33]

[tomtom]

From http://theconcourse.deadspin.com/a-full-transcript-of-donald-trumps-black-history-month-1791871370?utm_medium=sharefromsite&utm_source=The_Concourse_facebook

February is Black History Month. This morning, Donald Trump held a White House event to mark the occasion. Below is an accurate transcript of his remarks.

[Daniel Dale of the Toronto Star published the first transcript of this on Twitter; we re-transcribed the president’s remarks from video for this transcript.]

Well, the election, it came out really well. Next time we’ll triple the number or quadruple it. We want to get it over 51, right? At least 51.

Well this is Black History Month, so this is our little breakfast, our little get-together. Hi Lynn, how are you? Just a few notes. During this month, we honor the tremendous history of African-Americans throughout our country. Throughout the world, if you really think about it, right? And their story is one of unimaginable sacrifice, hard work, and faith in America. I’ve gotten a real glimpse—during the campaign, I’d go around with Ben to a lot of different places I wasn’t so familiar with. They’re incredible people. And I want to thank Ben Carson, who’s gonna be heading up HUD. That’s a big job. That’s a job that’s not only housing, but it’s mind and spirit. Right, Ben? And you understand, nobody’s gonna be better than Ben.

Last month, we celebrated the life of Reverend Martin Luther King, Jr., whose incredible example is unique in American history. You read all about Dr. Martin Luther King a week ago when somebody said I took the statue out of my office. It turned out that that was fake news. Fake news. The statue is cherished, it’s one of the favorite things in the—and we have some good ones. We have Lincoln, and we have Jefferson, and we have Dr. Martin Luther King. But they said the statue, the bust of Martin Luther King, was taken out of the office. And it was never even touched. So I think it was a disgrace, but that’s the way the press is. Very unfortunate.

I am very proud now that we have a museum on the National Mall where people can learn about Reverend King, so many other things. Frederick Douglass is an example of somebody who’s done an amazing job and is being recognized more and more, I noticed. Harriet Tubman, Rosa Parks, and millions more black Americans who made America what it is today. Big impact.

I’m proud to honor this heritage and will be honoring it more and more. The folks at the table in almost all cases have been great friends and supporters. Darrell—I met Darrell when he was defending me on television. And the people that were on the other side of the argument didn’t have a chance, right? And Paris has done an amazing job in a very hostile CNN community. He’s all by himself. You’ll have seven people, and Paris. And I’ll take Paris over the seven. But I don’t watch CNN, so I don’t get to see you as much as I used to. I don’t like watching fake news. But Fox has treated me very nice. Wherever Fox is, thank you.

We’re gonna need better schools and we need them soon. We need more jobs, we need better wages, a lot better wages. We’re gonna work very hard on the inner city. Ben is gonna be doing that, big league. That’s one of the big things that you’re gonna be looking at. We need safer communities and we’re going to do that with law enforcement. We’re gonna make it safe. We’re gonna make it much better than it is right now. Right now it’s terrible, and I saw you talking about it the other night, Paris, on something else that was really—you did a fantastic job the other night on a very unrelated show.

I’m ready to do my part, and I will say this: We’re gonna work together. This is a great group, this is a group that’s been so special to me. You really helped me a lot. If you remember I wasn’t going to do well with the African-American community, and after they heard me speaking and talking about the inner city and lots of other things, we ended up getting—and I won’t go into details—but we ended up getting substantially more than other candidates who had run in the past years. And now we’re gonna take that to new levels. I want to thank my television star over here—Omarosa’s actually a very nice person, nobody knows that. I don’t want to destroy her reputation but she’s a very good person, and she’s been helpful right from the beginning of the campaign, and I appreciate it. I really do. Very special.

So I want to thank everybody for being here.

[Teaboy]

I've been veering off topic. But dragging it back - did anyone else see C4 news last night talking to voters in Stoke? A few there who wanted Trump in charge in the U.K... [emoji33]

You were being very naive if you were under the impression that the sort of cunts who support Trump are confined to the USA. For me the worst of what he is doing is not the immigration policy (that can be easily reversed) but his undermining of institutions, and by extension democracy, in the USA but I dare say that's lost on your man in Stoke (and strangely lost on a lot of the second ammendmenters in the States who always cite exactly what Trump is doing as the reason for needing to bear arms.).

[Oldmanmatt]

How dark can it get...?

If your Gay or Female?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-executive-order-christian-pre-marital-sex-same-sex-marriage-abortion-wrong-religious-a7558691.html?cmpid=facebook-post

Have a different political view?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-breitbart-news-remove-federal-funding-berkeley-university-california-milo-yiannopoulos-a7558946.html


World war 3?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-tweet-iran-on-notice-after-ballistic-missile-test-a7559001.html

Will they resist?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-general-strike-us-president-day-when-activists-national-facebook-twitter-a7558851.html?cmpid=facebook-post


Anschlus?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-tells-mexico-to-take-care-of-bad-hombres-or-america-will-a7558496.html

Pretty dark, possibly.

Reckon the editor of the Independent is currently cacking bricks, or at least thinks we should be.
I'm inclined to agree, I suppose. It might all fizzle out and he might settle down, or it could all go a long way south very rapidly.


All posts either sarcastic, tongue-in-cheek or mildly mocking-in-a-friendly-way unless otherwise stated. I always forget to put those smiley things...

[slackline]

World war 3?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-tweet-iran-on-notice-after-ballistic-missile-test-a7559001.html

Mikhail Gorbachev: 'It All Looks as if the World Is Preparing for War'

[Will Hunt]

I've been veering off topic. But dragging it back - did anyone else see C4 news last night talking to voters in Stoke? A few there who wanted Trump in charge in the U.K... [emoji33]

You were being very naive if you were under the impression that the sort of cunts who support Trump are confined to the USA. For me the worst of what he is doing is not the immigration policy (that can be easily reversed) but his undermining of institutions, and by extension democracy, in the USA but I dare say that's lost on your man in Stoke (and strangely lost on a lot of the second ammendmenters in the States who always cite exactly what Trump is doing as the reason for needing to bear arms.).

 

When you read online comments on the BBC news website and various local area Facebook discussion groups etc it is shocking how many people support Trump's actions. The justification is always that he's making his country safer. Obviously if he really wanted to make the country safer then he need only introduce some sensible restrictions on gun ownership, but we all know how that would go down.
I think we on the "left" of the argument often rush too much to defend complete free movement of people in an effort to distance ourselves from those on the "right" of the argument who are manifestly racist. However I don't disagree that applying vetting procedures to visa applications should be a necessary part of maintaining national security. But a blanket ban based on nationality or religion? Such a blunt instrument serves only to be divisive, a recruitment message for ISIS, and blocks entry to would-be model citizens, some of whom are desperately trying to escape the worst conditions imaginable.
With regard to Brexit I think that having control (not necessarily much more than we already do) over our borders could be similarly desirable. But I think that we on the "left" of the argument refused to have the debate because all we could see on the other side of it was bigots - to our cost now. Is free movement of people in the EU the greatest threat to our national security and our prosperity? No. Is it worth leaving the EU over? Obviously not. But that's not to say that a little reform could have gone a long way in the minds of many Leave voters.

I went off on a bit of a tangent there. I think the really scary thing is, as Teaboy said, the loss of faith in institutions - particularly the judiciary but also the Commons. I never hear a good word said about an MP but I do believe that most of them, for all that it might be a position of privilege and involve some sticky decision making along the way, are working hard to do their best by those they represent. I really mean that. But a widespread knee-jerk mistrust of our institutions and political establishment is exactly what has fuelled the rise of dangerous populists like Farage, Trump and Corbyn.

[petejh]

When you go on holiday to Canada do you think they're being xenophobic racists by asking you to fill out a 3-month visitor visa and to see your passport?

Canada don't require UK citizens to have a Visa to visit.

I didn't mean 'fill out' so wrote it in about 20 seconds before dashing off - the point is Canada don't allow a U.K. Citizen to remain indefinitely. Is this xenophobic and racist? I'd hazard a guess you think it isn't.

[Will Hunt]

he might settle down

This isn't going to happen. People uttered these four words like a prayer over and over in the run up to the inauguration. There's no evidence for it yet. He's made good on everything he said he would do. Time to stop hoping and start resisting!