[haydn jones]

What are peoples recomended choice for commercial setting. I've  used the 18v makita impact a lot and think its good. but have nothing to compare it to. thoughts anyone?

[SamT]

I think the Works have moved over from hilti to makita recently.  I'd say you cant go too wrong with makita these days.  The 18v sds are the popular cavers choice and they need to put up with a lot of abuse underground.

[Paul B]

I borrowed one of those Makita SDS  and it was brilliant. My Bosch blue 18v impact driver (I take it you mean impact driver not drill) was cheap but it shows and seems a lot less competent than the Makita/Hilti options I've used before.

[Probes]

Dewalt  over Makita  for me

[standard]

Dewalt now owned by black and decker. Forget the previous German quality.
Milwaukee are the bees.

[Paul B]

Dewalt now owned by black and decker. Forget the previous German quality.
Milwaukee are the bees.

Pricey though!

[Johnny Brown]

Dewalt now owned by black and decker. Forget the previous German quality

How old are you? Black and decker bought DeWalt in 1960. And they were based in the US.

[standard]

Dewalt now owned by black and decker. Forget the previous German quality

How old are you? Black and decker bought DeWalt in 1960. And they were based in the US.

Sorry, you are right. I meant they've gone to crap since manufacture was moved from USA to the far East in the early 00's.

[jfdm]

I use drill/driver for general diy have done two bathrooms recently.
They all do the same thing, but as with most things you get what you shell out.
Last year splashed out and bought a brushless dewalt drill and driver.
The charge lasts for ages on these bad boys.
Driver you can get small light batteries so I would have thought handy for setting.
I'd have a look at the brushless ones if you can stretch to it.

[haydn jones]

Hmm tempted by the bushless motor but there twice the price  :s

[Paul B]

Hmm tempted by the bushless motor but there twice the price  :s

Maybe a daft question given the OP but what / how long is it likely for?

[shurt]

Dewalt now owned by black and decker. Forget the previous German quality.
Milwaukee are the bees.

Milwaukee brushless drill and driver set down to £260 (from £400) on Toolstation at the moment. Seems like a good deal to me...

[SamT]

OP asked what folks use for 'setting' for which I assume they meant for route setting at walls . ie impact driver for driving posi screws home in ply.

[jfdm]

If your driver works maybe wait until it's knackered.
They all do the same thing.
Brushless you get longer run time.
Less friction on the driver results in more efficiency/less wear.
I can definitely vouch for that when I've used them.
They never seem to run down.
I would hunt around for deals, body only and possibly buy battery/charger separately?
http://www.powertoolworld.co.uk/dewalt-18v-dcf886-brushless-impact-driver-body-only?gclid=CNuwrqfJiNACFcJAGwodSo4HAw

[Paul B]

OP asked what folks use for 'setting' for which I assume they meant for route setting at walls . ie impact driver for driving posi screws home in ply.

There's a huge difference between doing that all day, every day as a career and not. Given Haydn's plea for a rope and harness not that long ago and a list of car issues ranging from nice to have to mandatory fixes, I was wondering if  something perfectly adequate (Erbauer) might be of interest? No spares or extras but they're cheap and get good reviews.

The Foundry still has a Panasonic 14.4v impact driver from ages ago and it's still working (although it did feel like it was trying to destroy itself at times).

[haydn jones]

Well i was hoping to get my foot in the door at a few walls setting and im probably gonna get rid of the van. that things a money pit. Got a setting job coming up but needed my own equipment hence why i was asking

[neilslim]

I got an Erbauer Impact Driver from screwfix that I can't fault for around £100, with 2 year guarantee... I've given it alot of abuse over the past 6 months, and it's done everything I've asked for. Worth a look for the price

[Paul B]

For reference the Erbauer is £79.99 / £109.99 with two 2.0ah batteries (standard / brushless).

[webbo]

My brother in law who works as a shop fitter uses Rhyobi, he reckons to get 2 years plus out of one using it 5 or 6 days a week.

[James Malloch]

Got a setting job coming up but needed my own equipment hence why i was asking

Can't comment on any drills other an my friends Makita is great - he's been building his own boat for the past 3 years using it for wood and steel and swears by it.

However, if it's just for the one initial job I wonder if you could borrow one from one of the Sheffield locals? Would give you an idea if you like it etc.

As an aside I read a statistic the others day that the average drill has about 11 minutes use in it's life. It was used to highlight the importance of a tool library in Edinburgh where everyone pools their equipment together and you pay a membership fee to borrow things from it.

Interesting concept.

[haydn jones]

However, if it's just for the one initial job I wonder if you could borrow one from one of the Sheffield locals? Would give you an idea if you like it etc.

Its not really an initial job. I've  actually done a fair amount of setting at other walls. I seem to enjoy it but always been limited to the fact i don't  have my own equipment.

Also follow up question.  Am i going mad but i cant find the 6/8mm hex bits for the bolys anywhere.

[Wood FT]

Just so you know, I would pay money for 'Haydn's Peak Lime Route Crux Replica based circuit'

[dave]

Am i going mad but i cant find the 6/8mm hex bits for the bolys anywhere.

Just hacksaw the end off a 6 or 8mm allen key.

[remus]

Just so you know, I would pay money for 'Haydn's Peak Lime Route Crux Replica based circuit'

How much? You could just glue a few pound coins to a vertical wall, that'd get you 70% of the way there I reckon.

[Duma]

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wera-05073946001-Impaktor-Bits-Blister/dp/B0055R2QV4

[Duma]

You can get packs of 5 too which is what I did, but can't find the link atm as on phone, sorry!

[Duma]

Edit, think this is what I got:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B00U1L7Z56/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1478091465&sr=8-6&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&keywords=wera+impaktor+hex+plus+bits&dpPl=1&dpID=31grZLWqRNL&ref=plSrch

[haydn jones]

Yea cheers duma. litrally found it after making the post however. i still can't  find the 8mm ones

[Duma]

Think we've always just done the big ones by hand, hardly use any at TCA though.

[haydn jones]

Yea I've  not seen many places use the big bits. but would be anoyong to turn up and need it and not have it

[butters]

For reference the Erbauer is £79.99 / £109.99 with two 2.0ah batteries (standard / brushless).

Compare that to the price of putting together the equivalent by Makita:

Impact Driver - Bare: £69.95

Batteries x 2 (Genuine): £49.50

Charger: £22.90

So far £142.35 and no case to put it in....

[SamT]

But the makita will almost certainly be half as good again than the Erbauer as reflected in the price.

There is also a compatibility issue to consider.  One of the main reasons I bought an 18v SDS by makita is that I know there are loads of 18v makitas kicking about.  Everyone man and his dog has one in the peak caving scene, which means if I need more than two batteries, we can club together.  I guess I'm saying that if the wall your setting at has makitas, with a charger, there is a chance of borrowing their charger/spare batteries etc. 

Brushless ones have better electronic power control, so in practice that means you get finer trigger control at slower speeds (probably more important when drilling). It also protects the batteries (from power surges I assume, like when a drill 'grabs' and gets stuck) and thus makes them last longer between charges.

[Oldmanmatt]

I bought an Erbauer impact driver, four years ago and a Makita about a month later. Both were used daily setting and general maintenance. The Erb is heavier but more torque'ie, so it's used primarily with the Hex bit, and the Mak was used mainly as a screwdriver.
The Erb is still going strong. The Mak was replaced by a cheapy Slash and wreker over a year ago and that was was in turn replaced by a new, lighter, Erb 18V a couple of months ago.
Our heavy drill is a MacAlister SDS, which did ~12,000 holes (~1000 in the  solid Limestone walls for resin anchors) during the wall construction, 4 years ago and is still in constant use today.
Ok, those are impacts and a corded SDS, so not directly relatable; but I offer the examples in relation to product quality/durability.



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[butters]

But the makita will almost certainly be half as good again than the Erbauer as reflected in the price.

Which is why I own a Makita... 

My post was more to point out that with the Imp that Paul B listed it was all there whereas going down the body only route what looks like a good deal gets expensive quite quickly once you factor other things in so maybe consider the Erbauer as a potential short term solution.

[haydn jones]

Ive opted for the makita 18v impact. got 2 of the smaller batteries to reduce the weight i have to carry around. cheers for the feedback guys. hopfully rhis drill will do me good for years to come

[Percy B]

Just saw this thread - sorry if any help I have to offer is too late.... but here's my input for what its worth.
One thing I think is important for commercial setters to consider when choosing an impact driver is what it will do to their body - in terms of vibration and tool weight fucking up your elbow joints, and also the noise making you go deaf prematurely and upsetting everybody near you when you use the tool. For this reason I have recently converted from being a loyal Hilti supporter and now use Makita again. The reasons for this are a) that the new generation of Hilti impact drivers are great but go wrong all the time - I reckon both of mine were back to be fixed every 6 months as a matter of course. Don't be tempted by the little impact driver Hilti now make - it is a spineless creature for commercial setting and doesn't have enough grunt.

I had used Makita impact drivers for a long time, and they are good but noisy and produce a lot of vibration (which might cause you some arthritic bother if you use tools with lots of vibration for long enough - it did me!) Makita now make the second generation soft impact/impulse driver which is very quiet and produces around half the vibration of the standard versions. It is not cheap - £230 for the body only, but I'm converted. Had mine for a while now and its been great. A word of warning - Bobert 'Lucky' Napier got one after trying mine, and his broke almost straight away. He's had it fixed a number of times but it still won't work. He definitely bought the only duff one they seem to have made - the guy in the shop seen him coming I reckon. I think Ned has a Makita soft impact too, and his has been fine.

[Paul B]

I've just had a look at the HAVs on impact drivers; holy hell!

Look at this:
http://www.makitauk.com/products/cordless-tools/impact-drivers/all-cordless-impact-drivers/dtd152rmj-18v-lxt-impact-driver.html

1:48 hours.

vs. this:
http://www.makitauk.com/products/cordless-tools/impact-drivers/all-cordless-impact-drivers/dts141zj-brushless-oil-pulse-driver.html

4:04 hours.

Obviously this is time with the tool engaged but day-in-day-out Percy's beta seems like a very sensible suggestion! Neither of the values above seem to fit with the HSE HAVs calculator and Makita's published stats (can anyone more familiar comment?).

Edit: they're not including the k value.

TBH I remember seeing an InstaSocialFace post by Leah about eye protection when setting and it suddenly struck me that you don't see a lot of eye, or ear protection being used by setters.

[Oldmanmatt]

On that last point, I had a PZ2 shatter (whilst setting on a roof) that gave me quite a nick across my cheek.
Made me think about eye protection at the time, but (despite being quite hot on it for drilling/sawing/routering etc; I still forget when setting. We also bought some of those hard baseball caps, with the idea that when we were setting in tandem, we had head protection for dropped holds/bolts/impact drivers etc.

They're quite dusty.

Somewhere.

I think.


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