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HPclinic said:
Ken_Kaniff said:
Hi, Steve. I'm not sure I can still post in this thread. I'd appreciate your comment on my niggle. I didn't pick it up climbing but it prevents me from doing it.

Last week I woke up with a shooting pain in the area of my shoulder blade. The pain went down my arm and resulted in the hand numbness. In the past 3-4 days, after I started exercising my upper body with theraband, the pain in the back and arm has decreased substantially. As for the numbness, it has passed but I still have problems clenching my fist as hard as I used to.

I saw my GP about the pain and he believed it was a pinched nerve in my neck, possibly resulting from terrible posture, a desk job, and a two-week cold I'd had prior to the incident.


It'd be fantastic if you had any suggestions about the issues my GP couldn't help me with:

a) whether I should do any other exercises aside from my theraband routine?
b) how long should I expect for the numbness (inability to grip on holds) to last?
c) when will it be safe to return to training and bouldering and what what type of exercises to avoid in the initial stage?

I look forward to your comments,
Ken

Hi Ken
I agree with your GP and you probably have a nerve injury. This should resolve with time and the pressure might have come off your neck but you need time for the nerve to repair. Any nerve injury is generally slower than muscles, tendons etc. so I would stop the theraband exercises and climbing for 3-4 weeks. During this time the numbness should resolve but it depends on how much pressure there was on the nerve. If you woke with the medial (inside shoulder on back) shoulder pain consider your work position and change regularly if you sit all day. Many climbers tend to get low shoulders caused by over active lats which can cause pressure on there nerve roots in the neck.So you might not have injured it during climbing but it might contribute to its onset. Its complicated!
Cheers

Steve H

Steve, thank you for taking the time to answer so quickly. I was hoping against hope that it wouldn't be so long to get back in shape. Anyway, I'm glad these issues do pass with time.

Once again, I really appreciate your help.
Ken
 
HPclinic said:
Mike

Muscles are very robust and no more so than in climbers. If both deltoid muscles are damaged you are very unlucky to hurt 2 at same time (highly unlikely) or you have a referred pain from another structure (more likely in my experience from the history). Don't stretch the deltoid and consider if either your neck or thorax are tight and/or painful. Try stretching your lats (side lying with arm reaching above head) and see how your pain in the shoulder goes.
Thanks

Steve H

Nice one Steve. Above and beyond the call of duty answering on a Sunday night!
salute.gif
 
I dislocated my elbow maybe 3 years ago, and at the time, I got a nerve impingement test (electrical current thing), which found some nerve impingement, but not enough to recommend any treatment. Recently, the outside of my hand on that side has become kind of numb all the time, sometimes painful, and also the skin on the little finger has gone really dry and sore, and I am unable to fully straighten it some of the time. I'm wondering whether this could be related to the elbow injury. It is kind of sore on the back on my elbow (I can't rest it on a desk etc) though the joint itself is fine for climbing etc. That elbow does look larger than the other one, suggesting to me that there has been some bone growth after the injury which could be meaning there is less space for the nerves to travel through the joint? I don't really know how to go about getting it checked out though. I have a GP, but they're not really any use for things that aren't really really simple or really really serious as they are massively oversubscribed. I can't imagine they could do anything about that either. Who would you approach for this kind of thing? Do you think that the problem is likely damage from the dislocation, and what (if anything) could be done about it? Thanks very much.
 
HPclinic said:
Regarding the fall, you probably hit a nerve around the elbow and this is causing the weakness in the arm. I would rest from climbing for a couple of weeks and then slowly load the arm. Bursitis shouldn't cause weakness in the arm so be careful with this injury. If it persists or you get increasing weakness see your GP.
Thanks
Steve H
Thank Steve, am having some scans (hopefully soon) at advice of doc to rule out any bone impingement of cubital tunnel/nerve damage
 
Coops_13 said:
HPclinic said:
Regarding the fall, you probably hit a nerve around the elbow and this is causing the weakness in the arm. I would rest from climbing for a couple of weeks and then slowly load the arm. Bursitis shouldn't cause weakness in the arm so be careful with this injury. If it persists or you get increasing weakness see your GP.
Thanks
Steve H
Thank Steve, am having some scans (hopefully soon) at advice of doc to rule out any bone impingement of cubital tunnel/nerve damage
Hi Coops 13
That sounds like a sensible option. I would also suspect you have a neck problem given the bilateral nature of your problem and the whole arm weakness. Please tell us how you get on.
Thanks Steve
 
Evil said:
I dislocated my elbow maybe 3 years ago, and at the time, I got a nerve impingement test (electrical current thing), which found some nerve impingement, but not enough to recommend any treatment. Recently, the outside of my hand on that side has become kind of numb all the time, sometimes painful, and also the skin on the little finger has gone really dry and sore, and I am unable to fully straighten it some of the time. I'm wondering whether this could be related to the elbow injury. It is kind of sore on the back on my elbow (I can't rest it on a desk etc) though the joint itself is fine for climbing etc. That elbow does look larger than the other one, suggesting to me that there has been some bone growth after the injury which could be meaning there is less space for the nerves to travel through the joint? I don't really know how to go about getting it checked out though. I have a GP, but they're not really any use for things that aren't really really simple or really really serious as they are massively oversubscribed. I can't imagine they could do anything about that either. Who would you approach for this kind of thing? Do you think that the problem is likely damage from the dislocation, and what (if anything) could be done about it? Thanks very much.

Thanks Evil Interesting problem. Yes, I would agree that the previous dislocation is probably contributing to your symptoms. Trauma to the nerves around the elbow in not uncommon following a dislocation. This could give you the pain and numbness. You also get neurotrophic changes to the skin as as a result of nerve damage as regulation of tissue is via the nerve and this could account for the dry skin (and even nail bed changes). Even if the original nerve conduction studies were fine, there must have been some level of damage and this is now symptomatic. The elbow might be producing additional bone around the various tunnels (osteophytes) and these could be encroaching on the nerve. Additionally if your neck is tight from sitting (or throwing yourself of boulders!) the combined neck and elbow trauma can cause something called a 'double crush phenomena' i.e. the nerve that is damaged at more than one point along its course is more likely to be symptomatic.

What to do? I suspect you need to get the problem assessed by someone. The first port of call is your GP but if that is not helping ask them to refer you to a physiotherapist or even Neurologist if the numbness is persistent.
Thanks
Steve
 
HPclinic said:
Hi
This is referred from your shoulder or neck. I assume it is a shoulder control problem that is an issue with certain wide holds as it is fine normally. A muscle injury would be more consistent. If its was 'super painful' you might have had a neck/nerve irritation that slowly improved but only caused problems with certain positions. Stretch you neck and strengthen your shoulder but continue climbing. Strengthen the shoulder in positions that reproduce your symptoms i.e. wide moves above head hight but do both pulling and pushing type exercise.

Thanks
Steve H

Thanks for this Steve. I've been stretching my neck quite a lot over the past few days and it's made a massive difference. It's not 100% sorted but it's a hell of a lot better.

There was one more thing I was wondering about injury wise. I had an a2 that hung around for a long time but it finally healed from what I can tell. A month or more later I injured something in my palm. It's not very painful but it gets worse when I climb on it.

It's either side of the a1 and causes swelling when I stress my hands through climbing.

Below is a picture of the areas that are swollen.

f6ZVYFUm.jpg
 
HPclinic said:
What to do? I suspect you need to get the problem assessed by someone. The first port of call is your GP but if that is not helping ask them to refer you to a physiotherapist or even Neurologist if the numbness is persistent.
Thanks for the response. I just need to force myself towards the GP now...
 
OK, feeling a bit like I'm falling apart, lots of issues on my left arm and hand which I think may be related!

Both my shoulders are stiff and sore (have been for years!) but in my left arm I get a dull pain on the inside where the bicep joins the elbow. My left wrist has been sore for about a year and a half which at first I had put down to having a baby, saw a physio and had an ultrasound which showed nothing and the physio suggested I quit climbing, what did I expect at my age and didn't I have my hands full enough with a small child, I'd also talked to them about pain in my ring and middle finger but they totally ignored that. Taping when climbing helps, if I try to pull with just those two fingers it aggravates my wrist and hurts the fingers a bit but the wrist also hurts when I flex it back and it makes a lot of grinding noises.

Now I also seem to have buggered the index finger on the same hand and it's stopping me climbing. The middle joint is swollen, looks a bit bruised and very painful when fully stretched or clenched. It has improved with a week of rest (I couldn't switch a light on without yelping last week!) but I'm concerned about it stiffening or becoming a long term niggle if it's not sorted properly now. I did it on a side pull finger pocket moving up and around it, I did it probably 8 times and started to feel something a bit off so stopped that but carried on climbing with no worries, an hour after I finished climbing it was agony.

Sorry that there's lots there, I feel like I probably need to go and see someone but I'm not sure if it should be a physio (who has a bit more of an open mind!) my GP, minor injuries or a sports massage therapist! Any help you can provide would be appreciated.
 
HPclinic said:
nai said:
Excellent, glad this thread is back.

I currently have a niggle which manifests mostly in my neck which feels tight and stiff, get a bit of discomfort in the back left when turning my head, can't turn it as far to the left as I can the right. Feel the discomfort turning it either way.
The discomfort manifests in trapezius, deltoid and inside of the elbow on the left too.
Symptoms feel better once warmed up and engaged in activity than when cold or inactive.
Feel a bit weaker than normal on my left-hand side, not just in climbing related activities, e.g. struggled to lift my bike over a stile with my left arm whereas it's straightforward with my right.
Hi Nai
This sounds like you are irritating a nerve on the left hand side of your neck. The pain into your deltoid, traps etc are probably referred pain as is the problem with your elbow. I assume you sit at work so correct your sitting position and stretch your thoracic spine (lost of upper back rotation). Stand regularly and reach up to the ceiling. If this does not improve over the next few weeks you might need to see a physio. If the weakness in your left arm deteriorated see your GP.
Steve

Thanks for the reply Steve. If anything things have been getting worse this week with other symptoms too, I've made an appointment for next week.
 
Hi,
You do sound like you have a lot going on!
I would tend to be focusing on the more proximal issues initially i.e. your shoulders. This could be the cause of all your secondary issues. Basically if you are not moving through the trunk and shoulders well along with possible muscular issues and control then you will be putting increased stresses and load at the elbow, wrist and fingers. Often with bilateral (both) shoulder stiffness and soreness I would be thinking that it is more related to your thoracic spine. If you are stiff in this area or lack sufficient rotation then your shoulder movement will be compromised. Can you lift your arms fully above your head lifting your chest and ribs and can you rotate left and right being able to look behind? If you have a sedentary job I.e. Computer/ desk based then every hour lift your arms above your head 5 times. Most people hardly ever get there arms above their heads during the day. You may be going from one extreme to the other?
Your finger problems sound like they could be related to a pulley strain, possibly A3 on your index finger. Start trying to stretch it into your palm and make sure it fully straightens.
Back off crimping and slowly start to climb easier grades and add in crimps as symptoms allow. Basically don't overload the tendons too soon, allow the tissues to adapt and strengthen again.
The first thing I would suggest is to research some local Physio practices and see or ask if any of them have experience with climbing injuries although the shoulder problem ( or thoracic spine!) should be easily sorted and addressed first. You do need to be seen in person as you have many issues that are probably all related and too many to discuss in detail.
Let me know how you get on and if you have any other details you've forgot to mention such as mechanisms of injury or aggravating factors then send them on.
Regards Matt
battery said:
OK, feeling a bit like I'm falling apart, lots of issues on my left arm and hand which I think may be related!

Both my shoulders are stiff and sore (have been for years!) but in my left arm I get a dull pain on the inside where the bicep joins the elbow. My left wrist has been sore for about a year and a half which at first I had put down to having a baby, saw a physio and had an ultrasound which showed nothing and the physio suggested I quit climbing, what did I expect at my age and didn't I have my hands full enough with a small child, I'd also talked to them about pain in my ring and middle finger but they totally ignored that. Taping when climbing helps, if I try to pull with just those two fingers it aggravates my wrist and hurts the fingers a bit but the wrist also hurts when I flex it back and it makes a lot of grinding noises.

Now I also seem to have buggered the index finger on the same hand and it's stopping me climbing. The middle joint is swollen, looks a bit bruised and very painful when fully stretched or clenched. It has improved with a week of rest (I couldn't switch a light on without yelping last week!) but I'm concerned about it stiffening or becoming a long term niggle if it's not sorted properly now. I did it on a side pull finger pocket moving up and around it, I did it probably 8 times and started to feel something a bit off so stopped that but carried on climbing with no worries, an hour after I finished climbing it was agony.

Sorry that there's lots there, I feel like I probably need to go and see someone but I'm not sure if it should be a physio (who has a bit more of an open mind!) my GP, minor injuries or a sports massage therapist! Any help you can provide would be appreciated.
 
HPclinic said:
If both arms are a problem I would suspect this is referred from your neck. Don't ice/stretch your forearms bit concentrate on your upper back and neck. If you sit at a desk for long periods this might be a contributory factor.
The nerve issue has been advised it will recover with rest. However the forearm ache is still present. You mentioned concentrating on upper back/neck. What exercises/stretches would you recommend doing for this?
 
Hi Coops,
The nerve will recover and on restarting climbing remember to slowly load the arm again on easier grades and increase this as symptoms allow.
Regarding neck and upper back exercises; I would regularly reach your arms above your head making sure you lift your chest and upper back then lower and let upper back relax. In sitting you could cross your arms and rotate your trunk left and right. I would also rotate your neck to the opposite direction at the same time. Basically move and watch prolonged periods sitting in front of a computer. If this doesn't help it is probably worth visiting a local physio.
Regards Matt
Coops_13 said:
HPclinic said:
If both arms are a problem I would suspect this is referred from your neck. Don't ice/stretch your forearms bit concentrate on your upper back and neck. If you sit at a desk for long periods this might be a contributory factor.
The nerve issue has been advised it will recover with rest. However the forearm ache is still present. You mentioned concentrating on upper back/neck. What exercises/stretches would you recommend doing for this?
 
Hi,
It's an unusual place to get swelling as it is either side of your joints and tendons. I can only think that maybe your pulley injury has meant that you have or are putting extra loads and stress through the palm. Also with pulley type injuries although you have strained the ligaments at the finger you can still have issues further up the tendon and even into the muscle belly.Try comparing some finger and grip exercises to your other hand and see if it feels the same. It could be weaker or fatigues quicker. Also back off the grades for a few weeks and decrease the amount of crimping and see what happens.
Regards Matt
mctrials23 said:
HPclinic said:
Hi
This is referred from your shoulder or neck. I assume it is a shoulder control problem that is an issue with certain wide holds as it is fine normally. A muscle injury would be more consistent. If its was 'super painful' you might have had a neck/nerve irritation that slowly improved but only caused problems with certain positions. Stretch you neck and strengthen your shoulder but continue climbing. Strengthen the shoulder in positions that reproduce your symptoms i.e. wide moves above head hight but do both pulling and pushing type exercise.

Thanks
Steve H

Thanks for this Steve. I've been stretching my neck quite a lot over the past few days and it's made a massive difference. It's not 100% sorted but it's a hell of a lot better.

There was one more thing I was wondering about injury wise. I had an a2 that hung around for a long time but it finally healed from what I can tell. A month or more later I injured something in my palm. It's not very painful but it gets worse when I climb on it.

It's either side of the a1 and causes swelling when I stress my hands through climbing.

Below is a picture of the areas that are swollen.

f6ZVYFUm.jpg
 
HPclinic said:
Hi Coops,
The nerve will recover and on restarting climbing remember to slowly load the arm again on easier grades and increase this as symptoms allow.
Regarding neck and upper back exercises; I would regularly reach your arms above your head making sure you lift your chest and upper back then lower and let upper back relax. In sitting you could cross your arms and rotate your trunk left and right. I would also rotate your neck to the opposite direction at the same time. Basically move and watch prolonged periods sitting in front of a computer. If this doesn't help it is probably worth visiting a local physio.
Regards Matt
Hi Matt, thanks again for yours and your colleagues' help. I am off to Font next weekend and my GP said I should be ok for it but take it easy, which I'm not very good at doing... ::) Nerve is beginning to feel better, will try and get down the wall next week to test it lightly though I think I have a busy week ahead. I'll try the neck and upper back exercises. Thanks!
 
Hello HP chaps.

I have shoulder and elbow problems. First sign ofproblem was on a weeks holiday in Fontainebleau back in April this year. Three days on, with no real warning signs I got acute pain in my left elbow. It hurt like hell, I'm not one to complain usually but it was extremely uncomfortable. That was the last time I climbed this year.

Over the course of the year, things have worsened overall. Elbow pain had improved, but is still there. My shoulder has become very painful however. I do a manual job, very physical, as a tree surgeon. The pain is when my arm is extended out, usually above my head or with arm outstretched. Example being putting fresh bed sheets on, I reached out to tuck one corner in and lost my footing slightly and put weight down through my arms whilst they were both outstretched. The pain was intense!

I did have a session with an NHS physio who thought I had a shoulder impingement. I ended up going to see a private physio as the pain was unbearable and the waiting time was lengthy on NHS. I have been to the private physio a few times, by don't feel like I'm getting far in all honesty.

I miss climbing, and I worry I'm not going to be able to do it ever again! I'm stuck in a rut really, as I can't recover properly because of my job, but have to work as I'm self employed.

Any thoughts?


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Oh yes, additional info I forgot.

Private physio man says I have extremely tight tendons (?) in dodgy left arm. He speculated I might had a small stress fracture whilst in Font, but as no X-ray was taken we'll never know. He has been using ultrasound and massage on elbow and shoulder.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Mike Tyson said:
Hello HP chaps.

I have shoulder and elbow problems. First sign ofproblem was on a weeks holiday in Fontainebleau back in April this year. Three days on, with no real warning signs I got acute pain in my left elbow. It hurt like hell, I'm not one to complain usually but it was extremely uncomfortable. That was the last time I climbed this year.

Over the course of the year, things have worsened overall. Elbow pain had improved, but is still there. My shoulder has become very painful however. I do a manual job, very physical, as a tree surgeon. The pain is when my arm is extended out, usually above my head or with arm outstretched. Example being putting fresh bed sheets on, I reached out to tuck one corner in and lost my footing slightly and put weight down through my arms whilst they were both outstretched. The pain was intense!

I did have a session with an NHS physio who thought I had a shoulder impingement. I ended up going to see a private physio as the pain was unbearable and the waiting time was lengthy on NHS. I have been to the private physio a few times, by don't feel like I'm getting far in all honesty.

I miss climbing, and I worry I'm not going to be able to do it ever again! I'm stuck in a rut really, as I can't recover properly because of my job, but have to work as I'm self employed.

Any thoughts?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Hi,it sounds like you have had a difficult year!
The onset of your problem is interesting in that you had sudden pain without any specific mechanism of injury. It doesn't sound like a tendonopathy such as tennis elbow. The fact that the elbow has now settled but the shoulder has become problematic with intense pain makes me think that the symptoms could be coming from the cervical (neck)or upper thoracic spine (upper back). Shoulder impingements should improve if managed well but can take at least three months to settle with progressive and specific exercises. Massage and ultrasound are not enough and I would ask if the symptoms are coming from a more central origin. If it is truely a shoulder problem then it should respond to exercises but they need to be progressed. More exercise less ultrasound. You will climb again but it sounds like you need a second opinion.
Let me know how you get on and if you have any other info please post it on.
Kind regards
Matt
 
Thanks for taking the time to reply Matt, most appreciated. I am going to seek out a referral to a specialist in Harrogate. A good friend of mine endured injured shoulder for ages, and got it sorted out by a man from the Wrightington. Bit far for me to travel, but a colleague of his now works at Harrogate, which is much more manageable. I'll keep updating my situation, but it's good to know you can see my getting fixed eventually!
 


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