Quote from: Nemo on November 22, 2016, 12:16:22 amQuote"Assuming he's successful, doesn't that constitute 'pathing it'?" - Paul BNot really. To be honest, I think he had to put a fair bit more time and effort into this than I'd expected. I'd kinda expected him to struggle on some of the wierd laybacky type things - ie: pitches 10, 17 etc. But the two crux pitches, I thought he would do much more easily than he did. He did have hot weather all time he was there up till the third day of the push. But from then on, including both days spent on the crux pitches it cooled down loads. They are clearly properly hard.great summery post. thanksYou have incredibly high expectations! Its not like Ondra onsights every 9a he tries (the vast majority of which are not slabby climbs rather steep and overhanging).Surely the question of 'pathing it' is relative?Caldwell has a wealth of experience doing big walls on El Cap, spent several years working out a line and then Jorgenson got involved (known for being a dab hand at granite bouldering so his skill set was honed too). Together they worked the various pitches for a few more years, learning all the moves, dialling the pitches. They tried freeing it in 2010 but Caldwell sustained a broken ankle and it wasn't until 2014 that Caldwell freed pitch 14 and they then went for a "final push" 2015/16 over a period of 19 days, swinging leads on the first 10 pitches and also on some of the top ones from what I can find in the reports.Ondra readily confessed himself that the smooth granite walls were not his style (i.e. not steep overhanging crimps) and need to be climbed relatively slowly compared to his normal style. Turns up and based on the Supertopo thread you quote has 23 days in the valley, of which 15 were on the wall, refining and adapting to the style of El Cap climbing whilst at the same time learning the route as he put fixed ropes up from the ground (can't find it now but I recall reading a quote by Jorgenson saying this was impressive as he and Caldwell had fixed ropes from the top for their work/push). He then set off on the 14th November, climbing pitches 1-9 in six hours (pitches 1-10 took Caldwell and Jorgenson 3 days). Ondra did pitches 10-13 on Day 2 then rested deliberately for a day before trying 14 which took him two days in the end but then he did pitch 15 second go the same day (Ondra 1-15 total of 5-days; Caldwell and Jorgenson both got through pitch 14 by day 7). No rest for Ondra and he climbed the loop pitch (16) and the next five pitches upto Wino tower (16-21 in a day total of 7 days; Caldwell reached Wino tower after 16-days whilst Jorgenson had been shut down by 15 he completed it that day). A forced rest day due to rain and he then climbed the remaining pitches on the eighth day (Jorgenson took two days to catch Caldwell up on Wino Tower and they then topped out the next day, total of 19 days on the wall).There is the added pressure of a first ascent and not knowing whether it was possible for Caldwell and Jorgenson, whilst Ondra knew it had been climbed and helpfully had key sequences shared with him by the first ascentionists. That aside leading every single pitch in less than half the time it took Caldwell and Jorgenson and without the wealth of experience on the rock type was an absolutely phenomenal effort from Ondra. And he appears to have done it all with a smile on his face as he just fucking loves climbing.Other factors to consider are that Ondra has predominantly climbed sport and bouldered rather than trad/fixed gear, must have taken a big psychological step to go through that learning curve so quickly in such a tough playground.There is still room for improvement, for example someone could rock up and go completely ground-up or even on-sight the whole thing(!!!) but I doubt there are going to be many suitors in the foreseeable future and it will be some time before anyone will come close to matching it.Caldwell and Jorgenson timeline of final push
Quote"Assuming he's successful, doesn't that constitute 'pathing it'?" - Paul BNot really. To be honest, I think he had to put a fair bit more time and effort into this than I'd expected. I'd kinda expected him to struggle on some of the wierd laybacky type things - ie: pitches 10, 17 etc. But the two crux pitches, I thought he would do much more easily than he did. He did have hot weather all time he was there up till the third day of the push. But from then on, including both days spent on the crux pitches it cooled down loads. They are clearly properly hard.
"Assuming he's successful, doesn't that constitute 'pathing it'?" - Paul B
I imagine that Chris say hi.
just that the standards he sets are so ridiculously high.
"It seems like the really hard bits on the Dawn Wall are on un-nailed rock, which may preserve the nature of the climbing well into the future. I wonder if it is possible to get everyone to agree that the Dawn Wall is now free, and only clean climbing can be used." - "Roger Breedlove"
"The next comprehensive Yosemite Guide should include a section on clean aid climbing and clearly identify sections of big walls that are free climbing pitches that should only be done hammerless." - "kingtut"
