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Numbing Out (Read 16150 times)

Paul B

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Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 10:50:57 am
I've ended up getting on a route relatively late in the Kilnsey season (with an impending holiday on the 20/10). It's not the end of the world if it has to wait another year, although obviously, I'd prefer it not to.

Seepage has been a bit of an issue (I'm looking at you August!) for the crag and conditions generally haven't seemed overly great this year. Yesterday, the temps were around 15'c and there was a strong easterly (15mpg) which simply sapped the heat out of me. Frustratingly, my fingers numbed out at a critical point, just shy of easier ground.

What are people's tactics for avoiding this? I was properly wrapped/gloved up and even shamelessly had my hands under the dog's coat to try and warm them up prior to a RP.

There aren't really any rests on the route to start putting hands on the back of the neck (I barely chalk).

T_B

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#1 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 10:57:35 am
Even by your standards Paul, this is a classic advice-seeking post!

I can lend you a down suit if you want?

Hand warmer in your chalk bag?

Haul up and tie off some form of portable heater....?

tomtom

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#2 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:02:00 am
Use someone elses body heat? ;)

Paul B

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#3 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:04:57 am
Even by your standards Paul, this is a classic advice-seeking post!

errr, yes? Haven't you got kids to walk?

I'm interested if people think it's linked to aerobic stuff but I didn't want to lead an answer.

galpinos

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#4 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:10:45 am
No experience in this exact scenario but in Scottish winter climbing, keeping my core warm and keeping my wrist insulated seems to make a massive difference to my hands. Are you wearing enough clothing and can does your top cover your wrists?

tomtom

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#5 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:12:45 am
(bouldering not chuffing but..)

When cold I find that the first 15-20 min of a session is nearly impossible. numb hands, no feeling, slow movement etc.. then they warm up, maybe some hot aches and then I'm fine for the next hour or two...

I use a big pair of fleece lined windproof mits (better than gloves as you can keep the fingers together for warmth/make a fist shape inside them etc..)

cjsheps

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#6 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:14:11 am
DISCLAIMER: This may be considered cheating, and it's not a good idea to put loads of chemicals into your body.

I have quite severe Raynaud's Syndrome, which means that I lose blood flow to my hands really quickly upon the onset of the slightest drop in temperature. Over the winter, I take a vaso-dilation drug called Nifedipine which helps me maintain blood flow. You need to take it for a week or so to get an effect, and I have a vague suspicion that it causes my blood pressure to drop.

Aside from that, I find being thoroughly warm before climbing helps. If I'm not 100% warm before I start, things go downhill quickly.

Doylo

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#7 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:16:22 am
Keep them up your dogs arse then crush it.

jwi

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#8 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:23:44 am
I tape hand warmer packs to my wrists, on the palmar side.

SA Chris

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#9 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:35:14 am
Keep them up your dogs arse then crush it.

Crush what, the dog's arse?

As Galpinos said, keep as much of arm and rest of body as warm as possible. You can try some running compression sleeves which may or may not help. Some reuseable handwarmers might work. Consider a thin hat to limit heat loss through head, you can just chuck it off if it gets too warm.

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#10 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:36:37 am
Was going to say wrist stuff, wrist warmers, sweatbands etc. Blood flow is near the surface there so has a big effect.

Climb faster?

Nibile

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#11 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 11:39:33 am
I was properly wrapped/gloved up and even shamelessly had my hands under the dog's coat to try and warm them up prior to a RP.
I'm not exactly sure this is a good tactic. In my experience, it just makes things worse, because you overheat your hands causing a huge vasodilatation that's due to that overheating, and not to improved circulation. Then when you take the gloves off and start squeezing holds, you go through a sudden vasoconstriction and your system isn't ready to adapt to the new circumstances because it comes from a warm environment.
I've seen best results with doing a short sequence, so that you almost get numb fingers, then letting them warm up again without putting on gloves, then going. This way they get warm in the same environment in which they are going to perform.

SA Chris

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#12 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 12:38:03 pm
Other possibility is a pair of Dachstein mitts. Claim that the rough wool stimulates the skin and encourages circulation.

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#13 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 02:00:34 pm

I get cold/numb hands a lot. Which is why I love this style sleeve. Actually just got in the van from a session on Saddle tor (followed by a 10k yomp), in a howling gale. It's been Beanie, Duvet and desperately cuddling hot mugs of coffee weather today. The dog has been rolling in horse/cow shit, I draw the line at warming my hands there today.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tomtom

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#14 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 02:04:19 pm
Was going to say wrist stuff, wrist warmers, sweatbands etc. Blood flow is near the surface there so has a big effect.

Climb faster?

Before Dave gets in there - try climbing on a steep overhanging board and avoid traverses ;) xx

Ged

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#15 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 03:18:17 pm
Some sort of mini re-warm up to get the blood flowing first.  Maybe the first couple of clips of your proj.  Get your hands numb, runa round a lot to get your core warm, then go when your hands are glowing red hot.

Those thumb loop sleeves are good too.  And hand warmer in the chalk bag

abarro81

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#16 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 06:37:12 pm
I've seen best results with doing a short sequence, so that you almost get numb fingers, then letting them warm up again without putting on gloves, then going.

+1 for some kind of 'pre-numbing' approach like this. Also worth noting that being warm in a full down suit with your hands touching your dog inappropriately isn't really being warm  - in my experience you're only warm once you're warm enough from running/dancing/etc that you've actually ended up taking your down jacket off, and you put it back on only for the brief period it takes to put shoes on and tie in...

jwi

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#17 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 07:10:47 pm
+1000 for some hand warmer based approach.

Oh yes. I have bad circulation to my fingers and have done quite a lot of rock climbing in the winter in the subarctic, as well as in the sometimes brutally cold Lleida fog. Hand warmers taped to the wrists is one of the two things that works for me. The other being keeping hot rocks in the chalk bag (if there are enough shakeouts on the route),

tomtom

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#18 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 07:11:48 pm
Maybe theres a market for a down cover for a portable beastmaker.... so you can warm you fingers up at the crag - in the warm.

I hereby christen the "Beastmuffer"

moose

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#19 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 08:40:13 pm
Unfortunately, for me the problem with cold weather cragging is that as soon as I start climbing, it's a count-down to finger numbness - the cold rock just sucks the heat out of my hands, leaving them insensate lumps. 

The best solution for that I have found is to have one of those charcoal shake-bag hand-warmers in my chalk-bag .  That way my fingers are warmed-up a little with every chalk-up - especially good for routes with extended shake-outs as you can milk the rest without fear of getting cold.  I haven't had any problems with grip due to the warm chalk making my hands sweaty - more the opposite as the warmth stops my skin getting glassy (that said, I do have very dry skin). 

Co-incidentally I have just taken delivery of a box of 40 pairs of handwarmers (amazon marketplace) - which probably means we are destined to have an incredibly warm winter!  If you see me around, give me a shout and I'll give you a couple of packets to try.

lagerstarfish

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#20 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 08:41:59 pm
for alpine rock routes and grit bouldering, I managed best by letting my hands get really cold, go through hot aches and keep my core and arms warm -  numb out the fingers whilst not getting pumped or tired and then get the heart rate up jumping about and doing pressups

no experience on UK limestone in the cold(ish)


lagerstarfish

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#21 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 08:44:17 pm
alternatively, get hold of one of Sony's budget Xperia phones and tell it it to do two things at once - might be too hot for safe use at the crag

Moo

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#22 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 08:49:16 pm
Paul............ man up

Paul B

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#23 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 08:54:39 pm
because simply thinking JFDI always works... :tumble:

moose

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#24 Re: Numbing Out
October 06, 2016, 10:05:35 pm
I've seen best results with doing a short sequence, so that you almost get numb fingers, then letting them warm up again without putting on gloves, then going.

+1 for some kind of 'pre-numbing' approach like this. Also worth noting that being warm in a full down suit with your hands touching your dog inappropriately isn't really being warm  - in my experience you're only warm once you're warm enough from running/dancing/etc that you've actually ended up taking your down jacket off, and you put it back on only for the brief period it takes to put shoes on and tie in...

Not a universal cure though - I find that if I get cold fingers, they do not recover - unless I spend around 20 minutes with them stuffed in the vents of my car's heating system on full blast.  That said, I very likely have Raynaud's Syndrome (never been to a Doctor about it but every symptom) so I have very substandard recovery abilities. 

Total ball-ache - "perfect grit conditions" generally involves my hands turning into ice-blocks half-way through my "warm-up" circuit, an hour of futile attempts at recovery, and then an anguished dash to the Depot to get something out of the day.  Pretty much all my hardest grit bouldering (not hard in the great scheme of things admittedly) has been done in July / August on warm days.

 

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