[KeithScarlett]

I appreciate this is maybe a ‘How long is a piece of string?’ type question / post. Nonetheless I would be really appreciative of people’s thoughts and ideas on the subject.

I find myself at something of a decision point in life with various factors coalescing to prompt me to consider re-locating. A major consideration in where I might move to is climbing. I currently live in north Wales (and have done so for around 7 years) and for several reasons I am no longer getting what I want from the climbing here. I am aware that I have probably built Kilnsey and Malham up to be something they are not hence me wanting to get perspectives from people on here.

For me North Yorkshire represents the closest I might get to Spanish sport climbing in the UK ; I perceive that what I find a hassle here (tides, conditions, temperature / lack of sun and limited seasons) would apply far less there. I have spent a limited amount of time in North Yorkshire however so this idea may be substantially different from the reality?

Another attraction about North Yorkshire is that it may allow other life aspects, work for example, and interests to co-exist with climbing more easily and healthily. I’d be interested to hear what the opportunities for trail running, road biking and having easy access to nature (here I’m talking about walking where it’s possible to feel away from things) are like? What about the weather, how does it compare to north Wales?

More generally I’d be interested to hear from anyone who has re-located in order to build a new life / address a yearning – how was it, how did what transpired compare to what was hoped for?

I think the next step for me is to spend some time there, climbing and building some familiarity with how the area feels more generally – what might it be like to live there. In the meantime I’d be grateful for any comments on my query.

[Ally Smith]

D'ur - what are you waiting for, Yorkshire is known as Gods on county for good reason!

Weather and conditions are much more predictable than the Orme - no more dew point pseudo-science needed to work out if the crag is in condition.

There are vibrant scenes for sport and bouldering, and great walls (e.g. Depot Leeds & Manchester) for fill in the winter evenings.

If you've still got my contact details, feel free to ask any other questions via email - or PM for that matter (I lived in York before Chester)

[SA Chris]

North Yorkshire is a big old county, where did you have in mind moving to?

[cheque]

For me North Yorkshire represents the closest I might get to Spanish sport climbing in the UK ; I perceive that what I find a hassle here (tides, conditions, temperature / lack of sun and limited seasons) would apply far less there.

Tides are less of an issue in Yorkshire for sure. 

Might be an idea to join the "Malham and Kilnsey Lifts and Partners" Faceboook page (if you haven't already)- I'm a very irregular visitor but by having notifications for that group turned on I always know whether North Buttress is in shape and which days of the weekend Moose still needs a belay for.

[andyd]

Should have moved here 10 years earlier. I love it like the son I'll never have 

[nai]

I am aware that I have probably built Kilnsey and Malham up to be something they are not

Probably not.  Well, maybe Malham you have.

There's a thread from a few years back if you dig around when PaulB went through this deciding whether to move up there from Sheffield.  He hasn't regretted it.

[Duncan campbell]

Hi Keith,

I think we lived in North Wales at the same time when I was a student as I occasionally saw you at the crags/V12/the wall? If I think you are who you are? (You won't know who I am)

I moved to Sheffield a year after graduating so can probably give some insights into what a move to North Yorkshire will be like.

I didn't move because of a yearning for something different. I was still very much in love with NW and moved due to my then girlfriend moving back home to Glossop. I in fact moved in with her and her folks for a bit before we decided that as she would like to live in sheffield and I had some friends over there it made sense for me to move over. We split up 8 or so months after this I think.

I was enjoying living in Sheffield but my first thought was to move back to NW until I lost my job and realised I would struggle to find something back in North Wales again.

I still really love living over here and still really love North Wales (and regularly visit at weekends). I'll try and do a Pros and Cons list of living over here...

Pros

Big, psyched climbing scene - a lot of the people I climbed with in NW seem to do less climbing and more partying at the minute.

Way less grim in the winter - yes this last winter was horrible but on the whole winters are more fun over here as that is when all the grit comes into condition and I have had a lot of fun bouldering and highballing in Yorkshire, Derbyshire and Staffordshire. In fact I'm really looking forward to the temps dropping soon!

More other life options when you can't/don't want to climb. I.e more culture/nights out/decent restaurants/new interesting people.

More jobs

Loads of great running/cycling options (though you have all that in NW also)

I tend to venture to different areas a little more during the summer rather than always being in NW. When I do go back I am more productive as I can't put off those routes that I want to do!

Cons

Can be a bit rubbish in summer if you get a bad combo of hot + wet as the dry crags will be too hot to climb on and the shady ones will be wet. To get really good quality tradding in you have to travel and there may be slightly lower psyche for this sort of stuff though I rarely struggle. (There is exceptions to the quality tradding stereotype but imo nothing compares to the Pass/Big G etc). Further away from Pembroke!  (though I go more!)

Not as ruggedly beautiful as NW imo and not as much variety. NW is so hard to beat for that amazing variety!

Not such a weirdly well defined wet weather option. Quite often if its wet its wet everywhere.

Living in a city can maybe be a little more depressing?

For me North Yorkshire represents the closest I might get to Spanish sport climbing in the UK ; I perceive that what I find a hassle here (tides, conditions, temperature / lack of sun and limited seasons) would apply far less there. I have spent a limited amount of time in North Yorkshire however so this idea may be substantially different from the reality?

Errr I wouldn't get your hopes up too much but I guess some places (Kilnsey + Gordale?) are a little more Spanish. This is still the UK though. I haven't done much above 7b+ and nothing above 7c+ of which most of my experience is Malham which is not really in any way Spanish!

I'm sure someone else will come along with a better knowledge of this.


Anyway hope that helped. Dont count up the Pros and Cons I just boshed a load down. I am very happy here though maybe I would be equally happy still in NW - who knows!

If you have any more questions feel free to fire away!

[moose]

...which days of the weekend Moose still needs a belay for.

This Sunday.... if you're intrested!

Re Yorkshire climbing, once Spring rolls around until late Autumn, the weather has to be freakishly bad for you not to be able to climb at one of Malham or Kilnsey.  Even on days of wind-blown wet - if one of the two is exposed, the other will be sheltered.  It might get a bit greasy in summer, but dry rock is almost always there.  As for the quality - great routes from 7a upwards.  Not sure about any comparisson with euro-rock though - as with most UK crags, the routes are generally trickier to read than their steeper Mediterranean brethren.

[Paul B]

As Nai said, I've recently moved from Sheffield to Lancashire, circa 35 minutes from Kilnsey and it's bloody brilliant. I only wish work was going as well (it's currently so poor both my wife and I are discussing our options).

For us, we were working in Leeds and thus commuting daily. This limited our options for living on the Peak side of things. Increasingly we used the city less and less and the move became a no brainer.

It's not Euro lime but it's the best sport we have to offer in the UK IMO.

[KeithScarlett]

Thanks for the replies - I was expecting to be laughed at (with regard to the idea that the North Yorks crags really are that good i.e. enough to form / base a meaningful part of life around) so I'm very inspired to hear that people (some at least) do hold the climbing in high esteem and, more generally, value the area.

I'll have another / look think tomorrow however to reply to some of the specific points raised: I don't know where I would want to live there however ideally this would be within 30 minutes drive of Kilnsey / Malham and, and this is a major factor, I would want it to be rural. I haven't yet factored in where work might sit in this though Skipton and Leeds are both likely to be commutable and I have self-employment options that would probably allow me to stay local for some of the time at least.

And Hi Duncan! Yes, I know you (I think) - it sounds like while you might miss north Wales you enjoy Sheffield and still get back here enough. People's comments on trad make me aware that I might miss it however much of this (potentially re-locating) is about building a life around what I do (want to) do rather than what I could (yet don't) do.

[boxmonkey]

UKC ran a series of articles a few years back where they looked at the pros and cons of "relocating" for climbing. Looks like they covered NW and Sheffield but not much else. As an aside, I wonder why they never looked at Yorkshire and cities therein. Seems a strange omission. The collection of articles makes for interesting retrospective reading any ways: http://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/older.html?q=Relocate

[Luke Owens]

For me North Yorkshire represents the closest I might get to Spanish sport climbing in the UK ; I perceive that what I find a hassle here (tides, conditions, temperature / lack of sun and limited seasons) would apply far less there. I have spent a limited amount of time in

Malham is in no way Spanish, Kilnsey is more so I guess.

NW has the closest to Spanish lime, It doesn't get more euro in the UK than The Diamond, Devils Gorge and Castell-y-Gwynt. If you're psyched and get obsessive with tides and condition forecasts these crags are climbable most of the time when they're not banned.

There's a lifetimes worth of routes at these 3 crags unless you're Pete Robins.

When the above are banned there's plenty of long endurance routes about if you seek them out.

Not only that, the vast amount of different rock-types in NW is what'll keep me here, so many different styles and angles etc.

[SA Chris]

As an aside, I wonder why they never looked at Yorkshire and cities therein. Seems a strange omission.

Because it's UKC?

[Will Hunt]

If those Spanish crags are constantly drenched with seepage, infested with swarms of the biting midge, riddled with carpets of human faeces, laden with a proliferation with crrrrrozzly crrrimps (say that in Moose's voice), befouled by inconsiderate parking, and banned for some or all of the year, then you'll absolutely love Yorkshire Limestone.







Just kidding. Yorkshire Lime is brilliant 

[petejh]

Another option would be to save up/train up and go to Spain lots. Perhaps it's possible to figure out a viable way to have long stays out there combining some low-paid work with climbing.

A second home in south of France/Spain/Greece? Somewhere run down that can be done up and rented out?

I share your frustration at bird bans, tides and conditions. It's why I chose a proj at Malham last year and Raven Tor this year. (free fuel helps!)

[kelvin]

A second home in south of France/Spain/Greece? Somewhere run down that can be done up and rented out?

Now where's that landlord thread...

As Pete says, there's always the option to just go to Spain a lot or for longer if your job always. There are plenty of climbers out there enjoying themselves for relatively small amounts of money. £300 would be more than enough for a month in Spain, once you're there. That's decent food, good coffee and dry weather.

[Doylo]

I share your frustration at bird bans, tides and conditions. It's why I chose a proj at Malham last year and Raven Tor this year. (free fuel helps!)

And soft touches 

[dave]

If those Spanish crags are ..... riddled with carpets of human faeces,

Already got that covered haven't they?

[petejh]

And soft touches 

Bout time you dusted off your passport and adventured out of Wales to slay the peak(s) and yorks lime isn't it! (belay for Mecca?)

[petejh]

A second home in south of France/Spain/Greece? Somewhere run down that can be done up and rented out?

Now where's that landlord thread...

Hehe.. quite right. Imagine if it were the other way round with loads of run-down rural properties in Yorkshire getting snapped up by 40-something middle-class Spanish seeking seepage,cobwebs and bitter.

[Doylo]

And soft touches 

Bout time you dusted off your passport and adventured out of Wales to slay the peak(s) and yorks lime isn't it! (belay for Mecca?)

I haven't been on any Welsh crags other than that Cave for 3 years so I think I'll go to them first! People go on about tides and conditions at the crags round here but Malham and Raven Tor are useless for the majority of summer. Kilnsey gets wet at the drop of a hat (know loads of people who were close to stuff there then it got soaked). At least we don't have to suffer seapage too much here. LPT is not too bad for conditions, yesterday I was there in total humid mist and the rock was fine. Granted the Diamond is a bit of a nightmare though.

[Will Hunt]

seepage,cobwebs and bitter.

Sorry, is that the beer or the climbers?

[kelvin]

seepage,cobwebs and bitter.

Sorry, is that the beer or the climbers?

Bitter tastes like seepage to me anyway. Oh wait. Maybe it is.

[Teaboy]

I'm not quite clear what it is you are seeking. Is it just better, more frequently climbable sport crags? Where can you work from? It's worth bearing in mind that although Malham and Kilnsey are streets ahead of most crags in the UK you'll soon run out of routes to on-sight so if you are hanging around you'll need to enjoy a good siege. Also places like Kendal Manchester and most of Lancashire are as close or closer time wise as Leeds and certainly Sheffield.

[T_B]

If I was in my 20s again I'd sack off climbing at the UK sport crags and head out to Spain or wherever at every opportunity where your biggest worry is whether the route's gonna be in the sun or not. There seem to be plenty of young climbers in Sheff who train then head off to world-class crags in Europe. Say 8a+ is your grade, the big 3 in Yorkshire are world class but two of them are wet most of the time. I put in a fair number of days at Kilnsey 10+ years ago, and there are only really 10 good routes up to 8a, then you're onto the 2-star routes that generally have crap lines/cross through old trad routes. Malham is great if you like vertical foot shuffling with undercuts and are operating at 8a and above, there are maybe half a dozen decent routes below that grade. Gordale has 4 or 5 King Lines and the rest is choss!

I agree, I'm not sure N Yorkshire is the holy grail unless you are into siegeing.