[Three Nine]

Hi all,

I had thought just to ask Kranko and Randall, but perhaps others might find the topic interesting too.

I have worked to a fairly standard linear periodization model of training for about 5 years I guess. This has usually been focused on trips away. You do your base phase, then your peak phase, then you taper and go on a trip. Hopefully on your trip you do ok at climbing. The period over which I attempted to capitalize on peak fitness was determined by the length of trip (might only be two weeks), after which I would taper out of trip and then taper back in to training. Usually when im training i'm knackered all the tine so my form is quite shit. When I was on a trip I would usually climb two on one off, and obviously I would do no training.

This year I thought I would try and peak a bit in September, so I could do some redpoints of a few routes and hopefully increase my redpoint grade. I would then start training in October for a trip in Jan. Seems to have worked ok this time, I did objective no 1 on the 1st Sept. However, I would like to stay on redpoint form and hoover up some other outstanding projects until the end of the 1st week of October.

The thing is though, unlike when i'm on a trip, I can only climb on rock three days a week if i'm lucky. I also have access to climbing walls etc. So far, i've basically not been training at all, having a ton of rest days etc. This feels very strange as I usually train a lot (not because i'm dedicated, just because i'm sad and have nothing else to do). I'm also very prone to weakness.

What are peoples approaches? How long do you try and sustain a peak? How much 'maintenance' do people do when in performance mode? I was interested to hear in an interview with Ben Moon that he basically only climbed twice a week when in redpoint mode on Rainshadow, but then he's not prone to weakness. A lot of the stuff i've read from other sports is quite confusing. In some sports its based on just a single day or week of performance (eg. a priority 1 race for a cyclist), whereas a footballer wants to be in peak form for a whole football season. Obviously the approaches are very different. I'm more interested in general thoughts on the topic rather than specific advice.

Cheers!

[abarro81]

I think some of this is quite individual e.g. Moon and Mina both seem to like having lots of rest days and, for example, trying their proj after 3 rest days. I feel sluggish after 3 rest days and would much rather try it after a rest day then a very short session the day before - short and snappy, like when tapering but even more so. I believe Mason said he is more like me IIRC. Someone strong I had a conversation about this kind of stuff did anyway.

So... I think my vote is short n snappy sessions, no high volume stuff... but then I'm also used to training for trips.

[kelvin]

My best mate is 58, has competed at triathlon for 30 years now and has just had his best season, getting better as it's gone on and posting his best ever swimming times. Normally, he tails of as the season progresses. It's been amazing to watch.

We had a good chat on Monday after his latest race at Woburn and it seems he's massively changed his training routing this season. No long rides or sessions, just short and specific hits of relevant exercise as per coach's orders. So one 45min spinning class a week (sprint tri) instead of the long midweek road rides he used to do all summer. He said he's training far less, resting more and has somehow lost weight without changing diet or drinking habits. We thought that's probably down to the higher intensity over shorter periods. No injuries or the usual niggle either, which is important as you get older and recovery times get longer.

Make of it what you will.

[ghisino]

if i remember correctly, the conventiuonal wisdom in your case would be to do a sort of extended pre-peak taper.

you try hard in the weekend, and in between you will mainly do short and intense sessions. possibly mainly strenght and a bit of easy volume if you really get pumped out of your mind on your outdoor days.

i am not sure how long you can go on like this...

[moose]

"extended pre-peak taper", or in other words, my entire life (climbing at weekends, occassional midweek finger board session, bugger-all variation)!

[Tommy]

Studies suggest decrease in training intensity for an extended period will have a negative effect on performance - Bosquet et al 2007.

Majority of research recommends volume decrease of 41-60% - Mujika 2009

Consensus of a block of around 8-14 day for most effective taper - Bosquet et al 2007

So.... drop vol, keep intensity, do it for 8-14 days. In my experience the longer and harder the cycles were leading up to the peak, then aim for a longer taper.

[Doylo]

I think some of this is quite individual e.g. Moon and Mina both seem to like having lots of rest days and, for example, trying their proj after 3 rest days. I feel sluggish after 3 rest days and would much rather try it after a rest day then a very short session the day before - short and snappy, like when tapering but even more so. I believe Mason said he is more like me IIRC. Someone strong I had a conversation about this kind of stuff did anyway.

So... I think my vote is short n snappy sessions, no high volume stuff... but then I'm also used to training for trips.

Screw that. I used to rest too much, felt much better this summer for doing more. Even if it's 40 minutes of deadhangs one day. I can never predict when I'm going to feel good, could be after 1 or 2 rest days or could be 4th day on. Impossible to predict.

[Three Nine]

Studies suggest decrease in training intensity for an extended period will have a negative effect on performance - Bosquet et al 2007.

Majority of research recommends volume decrease of 41-60% - Mujika 2009

Consensus of a block of around 8-14 day for most effective taper - Bosquet et al 2007

So.... drop vol, keep intensity, do it for 8-14 days. In my experience the longer and harder the cycles were leading up to the peak, then aim for a longer taper.

Cheers for responses folks, that's what i'd do for a taper in order to produce a peak. But how much to do whilst you're (theoretically at least) peaking? and ok, so eventually performance will go downhill, but how long can a 'peak' be sustained? I never really thought about this stuff.

Note by 'peak' i mean 'period where priority is ticking a route/routes rather than getting better'.

These questions are especially important to me, as I have often hidden behind the 'long game/training' mentality, and been scared of the 'ok, i've done the training, now I see what I can really do' bit. Mainly because it exposes you for just how shit you really are.

[Nibile]

I can never predict when I'm going to feel good, could be after 1 or 2 rest days or could be 4th day on. Impossible to predict.

Same here. Some days I'm feeling strong. Some others immensely strong.

[petejh]

The Anderson brothers cover this in detail in their Rock Climber's Training Manuual. Basically RCTM is all about following a periodised training plan and sacrificing 'normal' climbing to train for a limited peak at a pre-determined time. Their rough estimate is 10-12 weeks training shuold give a 4-6 week peak iirc - there's more to it than that though, depending how your training period is structured will depend how your peak will look: a power peak early on and power fading but endurance peaking later following the RCTM schedule. Part of the training period can be PE training trying routes, and some of the power can be bouldering, so it isn't all misery..


My first experience of periodised training for a limited peak was trying The Oak last year. It worked well - I remember feeling supercharged for a short spell when I sent and floated up it with spare in the tank. But the sacrifice for me makes me question whether it's worth all the lost time 'just climbing'.  It can be heartbreaking to sacrifice 10 weeks of good conditions and then find your proj out of condition/you get injured/can't take time off or find belayers... The UK is hard enough at the best of times.. Maybe better suited to more stable climates or if you climb mostly abroad on trips.


Oh yeah in answer to your question - according to Anderson brothers you can try adding in a bouldering or campussing sesh once per week during your peak, to help prevent power fading and prolong the peak. Suppose it depends on the characteristics of your goal routes - I imagine endurance based stuff can be tried for longer than powerful routes.

I'm interested in the 5-day per week 'bit of everything' each week approach Patxi/Ondra mention somewhere.

[nai]

I'm interested in the 5-day per week 'bit of everything' each week approach Patxi/Ondra mention somewhere.

Did that last winter. Was good for endurance, not so good for strength and power so need to tweak things this year.
And the peak isn't as predictable and I never had that same, albeit brief, feeling of invincibility that the anderson plan generated.
 But then, I converted the training into success this year which i didn't last year....

[jwi]

6 week peak from 12 weeks of training seems totally unrealistic to me. I might have to buy that book if they can deliver on that!

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[SA Chris]

It's now called Beaijing