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Climbing is an Olympic sport! (Read 14723 times)

Bonjoy

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#25 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 12:11:43 pm
There's one of the speed climbing 6cs at Awesome Walls in Sheff too

Dolly

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#26 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 12:13:32 pm
Does anyone seriously think that this is a good idea ?
I'm not trolling BTW

Fultonius

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#27 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 12:39:34 pm
Does anyone seriously think that this is a good idea ?
I'm not trolling BTW

No. I wonder if, because speed climbing is (almost?) an equal player in the IFSC world cups (correct me if I'm wrong), maybe they made their case well in the negotiations? 

I don't give two hoots about comp climbing, but if I was a lead or boulder comp climber, I'd be pretty annoyed. I know we have things like decathlon, but there aren't many sports where they combine marathon, sprinting and weightlifting, for example...

Will Hunt

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#28 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 12:44:06 pm
Nope stays the same - don't like it much either but I suppose it makes sense to display all disciplines in Tokyo an hopefully get individual events at some stage if it goes well.

The speed climb is probably something non climbers can understand maybe from a spectator point of view I would guess?

On the contrary I can imagine it leading to confusion in the other events, particularly the lead comp. "So do they get extra marks for doing it faster?"

It doesn't make sense to judge climbing on a criterion that nobody cares about within the sport. It's like having a track event where you give the runners scores out of 10 based on how gracefully they run.

It seems a shame that the best climbers are going to miss out because they either perform poorly in the speed comp, or else don't perform their best in the lead/bouldering comps because they spend a significant portion of the next 4 years practicing doing one easy route very quickly.

sxrxg

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#29 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 12:45:07 pm
My general feeling is that this isn't a good thing for climbing. I would however like to hear both the potential positives and negatives from others.

My initial thoughts,

Positives: Increased exposure for athletes and potential for more people to earn a living from climbing, better training methods with more research, better injury management and research, more/better climbing walls, potential for cheaper gear as more is produced

Negatives: More rules in climbing, the best may not compete devaluing the competition - also those who don't compete may not be able to gain sponsorship as easily, crags are a finite resource and might not cope with additional numbers of people, BMC becoming more focused on comps and less on access/environmental issues, increased calls more outdoor sport climbing (thin end of the wedge), landowners trying to make money from venues rather than free access (as an example the water company that owns pex hill may try and charge for access, best outdoor climbing for miles around with a large population close by would make it prime development opportunity - they may also either want to bolt the quarry or make people top rope to reduce the risks again devaluing the experience).
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 12:51:54 pm by sxrxg »

tomtom

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#30 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 12:46:52 pm
Much As the format for bouldering and regular lead climbing has been refined to make it more of a spectacle... I imagine for the average punter, speed climbing (even may be several side by side?) is much more interesting to watch if you're dropping in and out of it etc....

Still - curling seems to grip the nation and that's not exactly car chase action material...

StillTryingForTheTop

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#31 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 01:00:53 pm
in Speed climbing, is it a bit like drag racing in that your reaction time counts and you can jump accidentally the lights for a false start?

I see there is a sensor pad on the ground, which I would assume sets the timer going or checks you haven't jumped the lights?

So does the timer go at the buzzer, or when the foot leaves the ground?

Will Hunt

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#32 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 01:07:06 pm
landowners trying to make money from venues rather than free access (as an example the water company that owns pex hill may try and charge for access, best outdoor climbing for miles around with a large population close by would make it prime development opportunity - they may also either want to bolt the quarry or make people top rope to reduce the risks again devaluing the experience).

This is a bit of a nonsense. United Utilities aren't going to start charging people to climb at Pex Hill. Water companies are already under pressure to open up their land to the public for free. Think about how many millions of pounds of expenditure and income a water company makes each year. The revenue from a few top ropes at Pex Hill? Nada. Not worth the trouble. And hardly in their list of duties as a WASC.
Even if it was a plausible scenario and they sold the land to someone with a commercial interest, imagine how difficult it would be to make the place into a profitable venue where large numbers of the general public would want to go. Plumbing, heating, electricity, putting a roof on it etc. Now imagine the comparative pros and cons of just setting up a normal climbing/bouldering wall.

Having climbing in the Olympics is not going to change anything with regards to access.

Rocksteady

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#33 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 01:10:03 pm
My general feeling is that this isn't a good thing for climbing. I would however like to hear both the potential positives and negatives from others.

My initial thoughts,

Positives: Increased exposure for athletes and potential for more people to earn a living from climbing, better training methods with more research, better injury management and research, more/better climbing walls, potential for cheaper gear as more is produced

Negatives: More rules in climbing, the best may not compete devaluing the competition - also those who don't compete may not be able to gain sponsorship as easily, crags are a finite resource and might not cope with additional numbers of people, BMC becoming more focused on comps and less on access/environmental issues, increased calls more outdoor sport climbing (thin end of the wedge), landowners trying to make money from venues rather than free access (as an example the water company that owns pex hill may try and charge for access, best outdoor climbing for miles around with a large population close by would make it prime development opportunity - they may also either want to bolt the quarry or make people top rope to reduce the risks again devaluing the experience).

I agree with your positives but not necessarily with the read across that more indoor comp climbers will mean more climbers on the crags. My impression from talking to old skool climbers is that the crags were busier 'in the old days' than they are now, despite the fact that many more people are participating in indoor climbing.
Likewise don't think that Olympic indoor sport climbing will mean that there will be more calls for outdoor sport crags. The best training for indoor comps will be indoor climbing.

As such, not sure the commercialisation of outdoor venues that you foresee will come about. I can imagine more young climbers being drawn more into the comp scene than outdoors. That might be a negative for future development, or a positive given that when top comp climbers crank outside they seem to do really well.

I do think the format sounds poor - should be individual medals for the different events rather than combined. Still, on the whole I believe it will be a positive thing, mainly for the investment in optimal training methodology, facilities and sports injury knowledge that will happen as a result.

BID

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#34 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 01:25:43 pm
I agree with everything that Rocksteady said.
The climbing injury thing. Specific knowledge like that is dreamy.

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#35 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 01:56:29 pm
I personally think its great that climbing is in the Olympics. As far as i can see there is no negatives in it for competition climbing, anyone who thinks its bad is just not into the idea of having a competitive side to our sport, and probably dont like it being called a sport either.

The only thing that some could see as a negative is the potential for a big increase in participants but this is already happening now due to walls so will being an Olympic sport really accelerate it. And if it does bring a big increase is this an issue, In my personal experience this growth has only lead to the walls being busier and not the crags, definitely the case in the county.

Re the joint format, i agree this seems a bit shit and cant see why they cant have individual medals as well as overall. It wouldn't mean any more time being required.

However i also think that it will be greatly effected by the selection criteria. There are only going to be 20 participants of each sex so is this to be split equally between the three disciplines or based on average ranking over the previous season. If its the latter most of the speed specialists wont even be there and the speed section will just be between the "normal" climbers, which case you may just have the best lead/boulder combined going head to head not against some specialist.


Will Hunt

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#36 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 02:16:26 pm
I personally think its great that climbing is in the Olympics. As far as i can see there is no negatives in it for competition climbing, anyone who thinks its bad is just not into the idea of having a competitive side to our sport, and probably dont like it being called a sport either.

The only thing that some could see as a negative is the potential for a big increase in participants but this is already happening now due to walls so will being an Olympic sport really accelerate it. And if it does bring a big increase is this an issue, In my personal experience this growth has only lead to the walls being busier and not the crags, definitely the case in the county.

Re the joint format, i agree this seems a bit shit and cant see why they cant have individual medals as well as overall. It wouldn't mean any more time being required.

However i also think that it will be greatly effected by the selection criteria. There are only going to be 20 participants of each sex so is this to be split equally between the three disciplines or based on average ranking over the previous season. If its the latter most of the speed specialists wont even be there and the speed section will just be between the "normal" climbers, which case you may just have the best lead/boulder combined going head to head not against some specialist.

That's a good point at the end there. I presume that the speed climbers are weaklings and complete shit *awaits the impressive 8a.nu scorecard of a speed climber*, so unlikely to be entered into a competition where they can only be competitive in one of the events.

Stu Littlefair

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#37 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 02:28:01 pm
I'm going to play devil's advocado a little bit here with the speed climbing inclusion.

For a start, crappy olympic rules mean that there are limits on the number of medals awarded. To give climbing a shot of being accepted, the pitch was for two medals. So; either choose a discipline or have a combined event.

Also, speed has always been part of climbing and competitive climbing, even if only a fringe part. From alpine fast 'n' light, to big wall speed climbing records to the comps in Spain where you climb as many Riglos routes in a day as you can manage. So it does have a place.

Finally, whilst at the moment speed climbing is pretty dull to watch I can think of a few tweaks the IFSC could make (mainly making the wall slightly harder or longer) which would make it quite compelling viewing. At the moment, IMO, the problem is that it's over too quick for any tension to develop (think indoor 60m vs 100m events). If it lasted ~10s rather than the current ~5s it would be much much better entertainment.

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#38 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:18:27 pm
I think its great that climbing is an Olympic sport, I can only think it will be positive for the climbing community.

Mainly thinking aloud here. I have very little knowledge of competition climbing, however, I can't get my head around how it is a suitable sport for the Olympics. The majority of sports in the Olympics are very standardised i.e. nothing changes from year to year, everything is exactly the same. However, in climbing this is not the case, there are a vast amount of variables. Therefore surely there is too much opportunity for bias? How would one prevent this?

To me speeding climbing (as weird and stupid as it is) seems like the most appropriate as everything is standardised.

On another note, surfing in the Olympic seems insane, what happens if Budapest gets selected as for 2028? Wave pool?



   

Will Hunt

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#39 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:24:24 pm
Not sure it's true that everything is standardised. You've got things like sailing in there. Isn't stuff like downhill mtb in as well? Not sure how much, if any, practice they get at each run?

You should be competing, Dan! You can climb 6c can't you?  ;)
Just got to do it reeeeeally fast.

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#40 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:31:09 pm

On another note, surfing in the Olympic seems insane, what happens if Budapest gets selected as for 2028? Wave pool?
 

It might not last that long! As much as I love surfing I think it's even duller to watch than competition climbing.

Or they have 12 years to build one of these http://www.kswaveco.com/

gme

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#41 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:31:54 pm


On another note, surfing in the Olympic seems insane, what happens if Budapest gets selected as for 2028? Wave pool?


http://www.kswaveco.com/ majority owned by the World Surf League, surfing version of the ISFC.

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#42 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:32:45 pm
too slow old man.

gme

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#43 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:35:24 pm
Beat me to it Chris. Its been the dream of the WSL (ASP) to do this for years.

And i disagree with you on the comps. i could watch the surf comps all day (night) when the waves are pumping, especially somewhere like pipe or chopes. Much better than any climbing comp.

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#44 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:36:49 pm
on standardisation: obviously the winter olympics is full of stuff different from event to event: all the ski and snowboard races are set and sculpted by different people.

anyone have a clue if shauna will be climbing routes and speed? she's getting a lot of press, deservedly so, as an ambassador for the sport, but a bit awkward if she is not intending to compete at all

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#45 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 03:48:33 pm
I imagine for the average punter, speed climbing (even may be several side by side?) is much more interesting to watch if you're dropping in and out of it etc....


I don't get this idea. It seems a popular notion, but really? It's just dull. Maybe as Stu said: if the races were longer than 5 sec it might be more interesting.

The reason I dislike watching it isn't because it offends my sense of what climbing should or shouldn't be. I'd be happy to be entertained if it provided some sort of engaging competition, just as I am happy to watch a hundred other sports I am unlikely to try myself.

 

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#46 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 04:10:03 pm
Nope stays the same - don't like it much either but I suppose it makes sense to display all disciplines in Tokyo an hopefully get individual events at some stage if it goes well.

The speed climb is probably something non climbers can understand maybe from a spectator point of view I would guess?

On the contrary I can imagine it leading to confusion in the other events, particularly the lead comp. "So do they get extra marks for doing it faster?"

It doesn't make sense to judge climbing on a criterion that nobody cares about within the sport. It's like having a track event where you give the runners scores out of 10 based on how gracefully they run.

It seems a shame that the best climbers are going to miss out because they either perform poorly in the speed comp, or else don't perform their best in the lead/bouldering comps because they spend a significant portion of the next 4 years practicing doing one easy route very quickly.

I agree with that - I think its a real shame that we probably won't see the some of the best competition climbers who are really specialist, like Ramonet, Jan Hojer, Shauna Coxey - or even Ondra.

I expect it will favor the likes of Shaun McColl who can do all 3 events.

However I think it was the IOC themselves who recommended the IFSC go for this format to give themselves the best chance of getting in the last time it was shortlisted.

I think the exposure climbing will get will be all positive for the sport and hopefully will lead to 3 events and the best comp climbers competing in future olympics.

I did hear from someone involved with the GB team saying it wouldn't make much difference to funding though as that is allocated based on how many medals a sport may win and on previous results, so climbing will be bottom of the barrel. Not sure if that is true or not.

 

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#47 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 04:16:59 pm
And i disagree with you on the comps. i could watch the surf comps all day (night) when the waves are pumping, especially somewhere like pipe or chopes. Much better than any climbing comp.

Don't get me wrong, I like watching surfing videos, especially in pumping swells, just think it being a comp adds too much subjectivity to someone just getting out and charging, and the surfing can be forced to get a bit too "showy" to score the points.

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#48 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 04:21:30 pm

I agree with that - I think its a real shame that we probably won't see the some of the best competition climbers who are really specialist, like Ramonet, Jan Hojer, Shauna Coxey - or even Ondra.

Shauna was British Lead Champion a few years ago. Bet you she dusts of the harness...

Jan was a German lead cup winner last year...

I'd be surprised if most of the top climbers didn't make the cut.

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#49 Re: Climbing is an Olympic sport!
August 04, 2016, 04:27:36 pm
I stand corrected! No way Ramon is winning a speed comp though!