China Doll (5.14a R trad ~= E10): Heather Weidner Interview
I'm pretty certain you'll find that that doesn't equal E10
Quote from: slackline on June 22, 2016, 12:20:21 amChina Doll (5.14a R trad ~= E10): Heather Weidner Interview I'm pretty certain you'll find that that doesn't equal E10 The editor's bit a the bottom about British trad route grades did amuse me. Rare Lichen and Once Upon A Time at 8b/+. Hmmm! And that's why Team America thought our routes were piss. They'd not have said that if they'd gone on Mawson's Pembroke line.
Quote from: Tommy on June 22, 2016, 10:18:57 amI'm pretty certain you'll find that that doesn't equal E10 I don't operate at anywhere near those grades so lazily looked up the conversion/equivalence on Wikipedia.You should update and improve the grade comparison table if its off, that way everyone benefits from your shared knowledge.
Basically that grade conversion table is absolutely cocked at the top end. It's rubbish. I'm amazed someone who likes grades hasn't done anything about it.
*Lots of people in the UK care about trad grades. They just all care differently!For e.g. Tommy thinks a 'safe but scary' 8b+ should be E9 - which makes a total mockery of routes such as Rare Lichen at 'dangerous' 7c being graded E9Another person might think 'S.b.S.' 8b+ is E10 .... which still seems to make a mockery of 'dangerous' 7c equaling E9 because what then should 'dangerous' 7c+, 8a, 8a+ and 8b be graded, if 7c is E9?
It seems a ridiculously vague system at the upper end. There's no consensus on the seriousness bit - one person's 'safe but scary' might be another's 'dangerously run out'.
Quote from: petejh on June 22, 2016, 03:09:18 pm*Lots of people in the UK care about trad grades. They just all care differently!For e.g. Tommy thinks a 'safe but scary' 8b+ should be E9 - which makes a total mockery of routes such as Rare Lichen at 'dangerous' 7c being graded E9Another person might think 'S.b.S.' 8b+ is E10 .... which still seems to make a mockery of 'dangerous' 7c equaling E9 because what then should 'dangerous' 7c+, 8a, 8a+ and 8b be graded, if 7c is E9?You are presuming 1 x E-grade = 1 x French grade. Which it is safe to say (with both experience of trad climbing and looking at any grading table) is not the case. Dangerous 7c+ is probably going to be a harder lead than Rare Lichen (which is apparently a massive soft-touch at E9) but still E9. Maybe dangerous 8a would be E9 too. Plus you have to add in how easy the gear is to place/how straightforward for the given grade the climbing is/etc. It's like with E5s - you can get safe 6c/+ (warpath for example) that are soft touch E5s and then get a spicy verging on dangerous 7a that is hard at the grade (haven't personally done one to give as an example but Kicker Conspiracy or Tufty Club on Scimitar potentially fit the bill?). Quote from: petejh on June 22, 2016, 03:09:18 pmIt seems a ridiculously vague system at the upper end. There's no consensus on the seriousness bit - one person's 'safe but scary' might be another's 'dangerously run out'. You could argue this at any level within any grading system that deals with danger/perceived danger. You could argue that for grading difficulty. Grades will never be definitive - surely that's half the fun??
You could argue this at any level within any grading system that deals with danger/perceived danger. You could argue that for grading difficulty. Grades will never be definitive - surely that's half the fun??
I don't really care for a debate about UK trad grades, what I'm trying to convey is that if Tommy thinks the Wikipedia article can be improved upon he should do so. If there is no inclination to do so then thats fine but it makes no sense to me to say that something on Wikipedia is inaccurate and then do nothing to improve it.
How could he - no-one can agree on what sport grades E8, 9 10 and 11 should cover! I suppose he could just go on Wikipedia and change E9 to mean death 8b and watch half of the UK's wads cry into their keto breakfasts.
(which sometimes entails discussion under the 'Talk' page to reach consensus between contributors).
The same goes for E5s though and I think it works pretty well? you can get 6b+ (id be willing to wager lower) solos and 7b+ clip-ups. Still seems to work pretty well to me?..
The Alpinist article doesn't mention E10.
I don't operate at anywhere near those grades so lazily looked up the conversion/equivalence on Wikipedia.
I am a little confused as to the point of this thread?
I guess that would work for the vast majority of routes, but what about the horror shows? I.e. Bold, steady E5 is say Fr6c. So what about difficult to read, snappy rock, death-on a stick Fr6b+....does this really just become E4? Or do we add another layer, like the US system? E4 5c X ??
I am a little confused as to the point of this thread? The Alpinist article doesn't mention E10. In the last paragraph it inaccurately infers the YDS grade of a couple of Brit E9's climbed by woman but it is hardly the main focus of the article. Nowhere does it claim Heather Weidner has climbed E10 (and frankly 99% of Alpinist readers would have no interest in that anyway.) All it seems to be implying is that Heather's ascent was badass - which seems a reasonable claim.
Quote from: Fultonius on June 22, 2016, 04:26:44 pmI guess that would work for the vast majority of routes, but what about the horror shows? I.e. Bold, steady E5 is say Fr6c. So what about difficult to read, snappy rock, death-on a stick Fr6b+....does this really just become E4? Or do we add another layer, like the US system? E4 5c X ??XS 5c?
In reply to why don't I do something about it if I feel it's wrong? Well.... that's probably like asking why don't I get off my arse and do something about the politics in this country that I don't agree with. I'd rather just moan!
Quote from: kingholmesy on June 22, 2016, 05:52:11 pmQuote from: Fultonius on June 22, 2016, 04:26:44 pmI guess that would work for the vast majority of routes, but what about the horror shows? I.e. Bold, steady E5 is say Fr6c. So what about difficult to read, snappy rock, death-on a stick Fr6b+....does this really just become E4? Or do we add another layer, like the US system? E4 5c X ??XS 5c? Touché!