[twoshoes]

You must have some bitterness or at least understand others bitterness becuase I saw your first post on this thread before you edited it  those two chaps are REALLY annoying

@fiveten_official @fivetenuk @pitchclimbing @frictionlabs @monkeyfistclimbing #climbing #climbingtraining #climbbeyond #climbing_is_my_passion #climbing_pictures_of_instagram #brandofthebrave #climbyourimpossible


As an aside, they seem really nice in person which just makes their online presence more unfortunate really.

+1

Assuming this refers to who I think it refers to, he is indeed a lovely man and one of the nicest and most supportive people I've ever climbed with. Then he goes online and turns into a raving narcissist. It's all a bit strange.

According to the Guardian we're in a narcissism epidemic:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2016/mar/02/narcissism-epidemic-self-obsession-attention-seeking-oversharing

[Wood FT]

I sort of understand where people are coming from but I don't understand why you all let it get to you so 

No-one is losing sleep over it, I think that climbing means a lot to us and that means climbing as a culture not just as an individual activity.

I guess but that is one part of the climbing culture. The climbing culture I interact with i.e you, all those other chumps we hang out with, other people around the world who love it for the same reasons as us - we all seem to be 'lifers'. Climbing is a broad church - if it makes people happy to hashtag the shit out of that pic of themselves then as long as they aren't secretly chipping/gluing/bolting things can't we just leave them to it? Or maybe if you feel so strongly about it maybe you should say something?

I think the whole competition thing is a bit of a load of rubbish that imo isnt really something I see fitting in with climbing culture. I'd never say that to anyone who loved comp climbing's face though as it has nothing to do with me what they choose to do with their time.

My opinion may even be wrong in both of these cases. Maybe we are all wrong? I just think that it would be better to get on with what you are doing/keen on/etc and as long as you can still see a core of similar climbers doing the same and the people not within this core aren't stopping you from doing it the way you want, maybe we should allow them the same?

you lovely man, I ain't gunna argue with that

[cha1n]

You must have some bitterness or at least understand others bitterness becuase I saw your first post on this thread before you edited it  those two chaps are REALLY annoying

@fiveten_official @fivetenuk @pitchclimbing @frictionlabs @monkeyfistclimbing #climbing #climbingtraining #climbbeyond #climbing_is_my_passion #climbing_pictures_of_instagram #brandofthebrave #climbyourimpossible


As an aside, they seem really nice in person which just makes their online presence more unfortunate really.

It's all pretty hilarious and as mentioned, I can't imagine they're actually getting much stuff. As a good friend said, "long may it continue". You know shit's getting real when Grimer dedicated 10% of the B.I.F.F video to mocking one of them - classic.

EDIT* Agree with comments about being very friendly in person.

[chris20]

Science too apparently http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b072jdqm

Yep, science isn't immune since its conducted by humans, a fair proportion of whom want to climb a greasy ladder of promotion or at least get their papers published in high-impact journals so they are returnable for the Research Excellence Framework (REF determines how much of the government funding pie their institution gets) and increase their chances of successful subsequent grant applications.  To which end poor science is often conducted.

This came up at our department xmas quiz, plotting lectures social media presence against their publication record

[a dense loner]

Five ten appears to have become the brand of the hashtag not the brave. Obviously excluding the wads ( Ned and gang), they have people who just pose about "doing all the moves but one , will send next time" on boulders several grades harder than anything they've done before. Obviously they never return for a next time. Not worth a post is it that you can do all moves but crux and can't link it. Let alone free shit

Just wait a minute, someone's getting free stuff for doing all the moves but one and it's not me!? I'm gonna get onto these sponsors right now, idiots are missing a trick

[slackline]

 

This came up at our department xmas quiz, plotting lectures social media presence against their publication record

Seems a bit crude when they could have taken the existing Altmetric for each paper and compared it to its citation index Rather than an individuals number of followers on Twatter and their total number of citations.

 

[a dense loner]

Mr Linux is quite right

[erm, sam]

if Pooch hadn't turned into a burly man she would appear more often on covers.

You have mentioned before how you think Pooch is too burly and shouldery. Do you not feel a bit hypocritical, worshipping at the shrine of power and singularity of purpose and then not liking the results when somebody else does the same thing? Should she not try as hard? Would you like her more then?

[Nibile]

This is quite tough really, because it's a very very delicate subject.

I want to clarify that my post was about what it takes to appear on media and become "rich and famous", to quote Bisharat.
You quoted my words as a pure statement, but I've written "maybe, and I say maybe".
For what I'm concerned, let's say that I like when men look like men and women look like women. As much as I don't like adult male climbers who starve themselves to 50 kilos, I don't like women with huge muscles, single digit body fat percentage and pecs where breast should be.
Or, I could like them both. The fact is that, in my opinion, magazines could not like that type of body, especially the female one.
So yes, I worship at the altar of power, but I personally don't like when girls look like men, and maybe magazines don't either. Or I may just be wrong and I have no idea about why she doesn't make the covers anymore. 

I think that we also have to take into account the specific nature or climbing, where a proportioned body can go along with high-end results (Jule Wurm, Anna Stohr, the Japanses girl, and many more). We aren't in weightlifting, where a big body is de rigueur. So, maybe this could influence media coverage.

I hope I have answered your question.

EDITED FOR CLARITY.

[Coops_13]

Do we all agree these people would have bought an item of outdoor clothing if there were no sponsored heroes? Because if so, does it matter that they saw Caff wearing those terrible Red and black Rab Euro trou and thought "Ooooh maybe I'll be as good as Caff and if  not Ill look as cool as Caff if I buy those"? Surely more fool them?

Those are bloody good trousers though... 

[Will Hunt]

Nibs, Puccio doesn't look like a man, she looks like a woman. To suggest that she could be less shredded and still climb hard is irrelevant. Even if she wasn't climbing hard she could look ripped and that would be fine. If you don't find that attractive then that is also irrelevant because the principle purpose of a woman is not to look attractive to the opposite sex.

If the mags don't put her on the cover because they don't think she is sexually attractive then that is a problem that the whole climbing community should challenge. It's as simple as that.

[benno]

This is quite tough really, because it's a very very delicate subject.

I want to clarify that my post was about what it takes to appear on media and become "rich and famous", to quote Bisharat.
You quoted my words as a pure statement, but I've written "maybe, and I say maybe".
For what I'm concerned, let's say that I like when men look like men and women look like women. As much as I don't like adult male climbers who starve themselves to 50 kilos, I don't like women with huge muscles, single digit body fat percentage and pecs where breast should be.
Or, I could like them both. The fact is that, in my opinion, magazines could not like that type of body, especially the female one.
So yes, I worship at the altar of power, but I personally don't like when girls look like men, and maybe magazines don't either. Or I may just be wrong and I have no idea about why she doesn't make the covers anymore. 

I think that we also have to take into account the specific nature or climbing, where a proportioned body can go along with high-end results (Jule Wurm, Anna Stohr, the Japanses girl, and many more). We aren't in weightlifting, where a big body is de rigueur. So, maybe this could influence media coverage.

I hope I have answered your question.

EDITED FOR CLARITY.

I'm sure this is well intentioned, but it still has undertones that bother me. Puccio is appearing on climbing magazine covers etc. as a climber, not a woman. She certainly looks like a climber to me.

[Oldmanmatt]

Nibs, Puccio doesn't look like a man, she looks like a woman. To suggest that she could be less shredded and still climb hard is irrelevant. Even if she wasn't climbing hard she could look ripped and that would be fine. If you don't find that attractive then that is also irrelevant because the principle purpose of a woman is not to look attractive to the opposite sex.

If the mags don't put her on the cover because they don't think she is sexually attractive then that is a problem that the whole climbing community should challenge. It's as simple as that.

Sorry Lore, this^^^^.

Except I'd change "climbing community" for "Western society".


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[Nibile]

There's no need to be sorry about anything Matt.
I was just trying to imagine why she could be overlooked by media, admitting that she is.

[Nibile]

Nibs, Puccio doesn't look like a man, she looks like a woman. To suggest that she could be less shredded and still climb hard is irrelevant. Even if she wasn't climbing hard she could look ripped and that would be fine. If you don't find that attractive then that is also irrelevant because the principle purpose of a woman is not to look attractive to the opposite sex.

If the mags don't put her on the cover because they don't think she is sexually attractive then that is a problem that the whole climbing community should challenge. It's as simple as that.

I never said that:
- she could be less shredded and still climb hard;
- being ripped isn't right;
- me not finding her attractive is relevant.
I was asked my opinion about worshipping power but not liking her physique, and hence my reply.

The last two lines of your post, on the other hand, find me completely in agreement.
EDITED FOR TYPOS.

[moose]

I don't like adult male climbers who starve themselves to 50 kilos,

...but you don't even know me.... sob....

[Nibile]

I don't think you're dieting, right? 

[moose]

well no, my current light weight is largely a legacy of a medical issue.... though I'll admit that my efforts to regain my previous weight have been a bit half-hearted - a little demon on my shoulder mutters in my ear about power-to-weight ratios.

[Nibile]

 
I remember about your issues. Hope they're sorted now.

[jcm]

Maybe, and I say maybe, if Pooch hadn't turned into a burly man she would appear more often on covers. But no one dares to say that.

Presumably they don't dare to say it because it's bad-mannered, misogynistic and an unthinkable thing to say even in private, never mind on a public forum.

Who the fuck cares what you like women to look like?

[lagerstarfish]

Who the fuck cares what you like women to look like?

people who want you to pay to look at women - they care

[Nibile]

Guys,
I didn't want neither to offend nor to be sexist.
As it appears, I definitely didn't make myself clear and I didn't choose the right words to express my thoughts.
If need be, I'd be more than happy that my posts or offending parts of them be removed.

[slackline]

@EveningSends
I could probably benefit from some of this   

Austin Kleon @austinkleon

The Life-Changing Magic Of Not Needing To Have An Opinion

[galpinos]

Nibs, your opinion seemed pretty clear and it was misogynistic and, coming from you, ridiculously hypocritical.

[Oldmanmatt]

@EveningSends
I could probably benefit from some of this   

Austin Kleon @austinkleon

The Life-Changing Magic Of Not Needing To Have An Opinion

I don't think that's right.


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