[Oldmanmatt]

All the FT links are paywalled.

Can you see this image?

Yes. I can see it.

Do you know how I can unsee it?


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[tomtom]

Interesting (balanced?) article on Corbyn here

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/jeremy-corbyn-labour-party-opposition

[TheTwig]

In all honesty the thing that upsets me most is that the rebels of Labour are just as bad as the Brexiteers. They are staging a coup/revolution/(referendum) with absolutely no plan or any idea of what will follow, beyond they cause some chaos. The majority of the Labour Party want Corbyn, or someone who endorses his politics. They won't accept another blairite clone, so who exactly is the left? I know of nobody.

It's all well and good going on about 'the voters' but the fact is the political parties are funded/run by their members. Electibility and all of that is all well and good, as is appealing to the 'centre ground' (which inches further right every year), but all that ends up happening is you take a massive gamble by alienating the base while trying to reach out to these magical swing voters.

Like I said before, it's the media stupid. People that Corbyn is unelectable/boring/insert trope here until they are blue in the face, and then it's taken as fact. Noam Chomsky is probably crying into his cup of tea at the state of modern politics (in the UK and the US)

[tomtom]

It looks more like outright mutiny than rebellion judging by the texts coming from the PLP meeting.

[Oldmanmatt]

ver 5% down now, may test 15000 before close)

It smashed that, didn't it.

And today, in the Sun, form Editor turned columnist McKenzie wrote:

"put my cross against Leave I felt a surge as though for the first time in my life my vote did count. I had power. Four days later I don’t feel quite the same. I have buyer’s remorse. A sense of be careful what you wish for. To be truthful I am fearful of what lies ahead."

Which was accompanied by a list of possible woes and a "how will Brexit hit your wallet" article. Which caused a shit storm in their comments online as disgruntled Sun readers howled that they hadn't been told this before the referendum.


Ps: I'm only posting here at the moment because we've just gone 2:1 down and from the play, I think we're out of Europe for the second time in four days...



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[a dense loner]

Did people think it was going to be roses at start of business the day after the referendum? That the uk would cancel its direct debit of 350m to Brussels and transfer to nhs over the wknd? Shore up our side of the Chunnel immediately? I very much doubt they did, people voted knowing there was going to be a shitstorm for the next 5-10 years since every single media outlet reported it as such. Well done for reporting that some people have said they voted hastily, they've had since 2002(?) to start to contemplate how they'd vote. I too could link to people who are pissed off with how they voted after every other election.

[erm]

There goes our S&P triple A(https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/jun/27/property-and-financial-shares-slide-as-referendum-fallout-hits-stock-markets).

At the moment more sleet and nettles...

[Oldmanmatt]

5-10 years?

Is that all?

There was me worried and all along it was going to be fine by the time my Primary school aged children turn adult.
Not the eldest two, they'll just have to lump it but the eight year olds might have a future.

AND we are now 45 minutes in and still 2:1 down.

Job's comforter you are Dense.

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[seankenny]

Wish I'd taken a gamble and shorted some individual stocks or ETFs.

So... let me get this right. You've just voted for a course of action that is crashing the economy and caused political chaos. We're heading towards a recession, relationships with our neighbours and allies are going further south by the day, and there's been a rise in racist abuse the like of which we haven't seen for a generation.

And yet you regret not betting on the stock market.

I looked through the emoticons but none really seemed to fit.

[petejh]

Fucking hell you're miserable! Get a grip.

Seen on twitter:
''Are Iceland in the EU? Their players certainly seem to have freedom of movement in the England half.''




Invest in umbrellas!

[a dense loner]

I know, sounds like the 5th horseman doesn't he?

[tomtom]

I know, sounds like the 5th horseman doesn't he?

Quite - after the apocalypse...

[tomtom]

Fucking hell you're miserable! Get a grip.

There's a lot of reasons to be miserable. I'm still pissed off with it several days after and it keeps getting worse. A colleague was in tears about it earlier today - lots of reports of really vile casual racism - you suspect 'legitimised' by the result.


I'm not sure you get that it's not losing people are arsed about, it's their short, medium and long term future.

Yeah. Everything's peachy Pete.

[seankenny]

Fucking hell you're miserable! Get a grip.

Did you miss the post above where I said how my partner had been called a "dirty Paki" whilst out for the day on Sunday? First racial abuse in over a decade?

Maybe it doesn't bother you. Maybe you think you're not responsible for it. Maybe it's all just a lark.

[Will Hunt]

That the uk would cancel its direct debit of 350m to Brussels and transfer to nhs over the wknd?

No. Because the figure is a fiction. But you must know that.

Electibility and all of that is all well and good, as is appealing to the 'centre ground' (which inches further right every year), but all that ends up happening is you take a massive gamble by alienating the base while trying to reach out to these magical swing voters.

 

Electability is "all well and good"? It is arguably the most important thing for a political party to be. Without it you don't stand any chance of winning power or scaring the opposition, without either of which you cannot influence - i.e. you're useless.


Corbyn's support is grounded in the social media echo chamber and I don't think people grasp just how unpopular he is outside their own slim millennial demographic. Your average working or middle class man on the street isn't going to agree with Corbyn on nuclear weapons, dealing with terrorism, or economic policy. The media, which on the whole is to the right, has some blame to carry for this, but not all. The media treads a balance between shaping opinion and being dictated by it. People don't tune into and read news that is at complete odds with their opinion.

[a dense loner]

Of course but it now seems a lot of people are arguing with emotion and nothing pisses me off more, apart from maybe instructors at the works getting groups to warm up by doing star jumps on the comp wall matting. I won't go into yoga at the wall, it's too much

[Will Hunt]

Did people think it was going to be roses at start of business the day after the referendum?

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it will be roses at any point in the future, or at least not to the extent that it could have been.
I'm not angry because I voted for the losing side. I do that every election and I get over it because there'll be another election in a few years time. This time my whole future and sense of identity has been imperilled by a half of the population who are stupid enough to believe Nigel Farage when he tells them that we aren't sovereign (we are), don't make our own laws (we do), and are "a bit full" (we're not).

This bloody England game is on and I'm not English. I'm British and European. But quite possibly not for much longer. It's a shite state of affairs to be in.

Of course but it now seems a lot of people are arguing with emotion and nothing pisses me off more

What do you think people used to make the most important political decision of their lives? They certainly didn't use their heads.

[erm]

Did people think it was going to be roses at start of business the day after the referendum?

There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that it will be roses at any point in the future, or at least not to the extent that it could have been.
I'm not angry because I voted for the losing side. I do that every election and I get over it because there'll be another election in a few years time. This time my whole future and sense of identity has been imperilled by a half of the population who are stupid enough to believe Nigel Farage when he tells them that we aren't sovereign (we are), don't make our own laws (we do), and are "a bit full" (we're not).

This bloody England game is on and I'm not English. I'm British and European. But quite possibly not for much longer. It's a shite state of affairs to be in.

Of course but it now seems a lot of people are arguing with emotion and nothing pisses me off more

What do you think people used to make the most important political decision of their lives? They certainly didn't use their heads.

+1

[a dense loner]

I know what you mean, I'm now worrying where my next meals coming from. But seriously this is now a job for the politicians not a dense loner, will hunt or omm. We can go on until whichever point we want about this but it's them that have to try to do something about it.
Now we're gonna leave Europe thanks to a frozen supermarket group!

[Oldmanmatt]

Of course but it now seems a lot of people are arguing with emotion and nothing pisses me off more, apart from maybe instructors at the works getting groups to warm up by doing star jumps on the comp wall matting. I won't go into yoga at the wall, it's too much

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[Oldmanmatt]

Of course but it now seems a lot of people are arguing with emotion and nothing pisses me off more, apart from maybe instructors at the works getting groups to warm up by doing star jumps on the comp wall matting. I won't go into yoga at the wall, it's too much

I
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O
N
Y

404
Argument not found.




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[a dense loner]

Did you like that?

[Bonjoy]

Electibility and all of that is all well and good, as is appealing to the 'centre ground' (which inches further right every year), but all that ends up happening is you take a massive gamble by alienating the base while trying to reach out to these magical swing voters.

Look if this is all about pleasing the club members than can you all go away and argue in a corner while everyone else gets on with finding some other bunch who can unseat the torys.
I like JC and I like a lot of his policies, I also would like there to be an effective opposition and some prospect of a change of government in the next ten years.
Being the leader of a political party requires certain skills, one of which is being a salesman. There is no getting away from this. How many leaders must the Labour party get through before they remember this fact? Jeremy Corbyn is a woeful salesman. This has NOTHING to do with moving right or left on policy. There is no reason why a politician of any hue can't possess the skill to speak to people in a way that makes them believed and trusted. There is no reason why an able politician can't cut through any amount of media bile and bias. Look at Donald Trump FFS! He may be an objectionable creature but he is proof that you can succeed in the face of bitter media/establishment opposition. Like I said before, stuff like your comment above is just perpetuating a false dichotomy. The only thing which will ensure Corbyn's successor being a Blairite is the inability of everyone else to field a half decent alternative

[Oldmanmatt]

Did you like that?

You rarely fail to amaze...

[emoji12]


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[petejh]

Fucking hell you're miserable! Get a grip.

Did you miss the post above where I said how my partner had been called a "dirty Paki" whilst out for the day on Sunday? First racial abuse in over a decade?

Maybe it doesn't bother you. Maybe you think you're not responsible for it. Maybe it's all just a lark.

Yes, I did miss your post about your partner being abused. I don't read every post on this thread - it isn't exactly full of vital insightful comment at the moment.

There are scumbags out there and I'm sorry your partner was insulted by one. No wonder you're upset. But to suggest that every single leave voter is an anti-immigration racist is crazy and ignorant. To imply that by voting leave voters have legitimised scumbag racist behavior is equally wrong-headed.