[Fultonius]

Apparently the guy didn't even know she was Jewish.

Which makes things alright?

Of course not, I worded that badly.

Are we to believe she's so thin-skinned she runs out in tears after being accused of colluding with right wing media? It's desperate stuff.

Or someone who's quite upset...

I really don't buy this whole 'Blairite conspiracy' argument - a lot of the rhetoric largely coming (it would appear) from Momentum I find very aggressive, playing on paranoia and a big turn off. All of which seems to contradict the new form of politics I thought JC was trying to introduce. Its all a bit Animal Farm

Blair was a warmonger and is doing his best to sweep this under the carpet. I'll stop on this now, and see what happens next week.

[tomtom]

Yup. Fair enough.

Fwiw - I hope Chilcot doesn't pull any punches... It probably will but we'll see...

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm sure you've all heard it, but I think this is an extraordinary commentary from Hesltine. Given his reach and power, Johnson is going to be persona non grata for years or decades. He effectively snubs all the leadership candidates too and that can't be good from a king maker.

Heseltine launches scathing attack on Boris Johnson
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36677623


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[lagerstarfish]

saw that on BBC News channel - say it like it is Tarzan

[Jaspersharpe]

It's almost funny how the old skool politicians who we used to deride seem like giants and heroes in comparison to what we have now.

Apart from Nigel Lawson obviously.

[TheTwig]

TomTom,

I'm amazed you don't 'buy' the Blairite conspiracy stuff. It's er, all there for everybody to see? I can't even call it the elephant in the room, it's more obvious than that. The fact that the Blairites actually announced their plot in the telegraph 10 days before the actual referendum says volumes about the whole thing. Or the fact that Angela Eagle was registering websites for her leadership contest in....2015!

Did you read the canary article on the Fabian Society? it's mind-boggling

[36chambers]

Thats a pretty sad assessment of what people may think of MP's. Nigel - thats not angled at you - its meant that if peoples first thoughts are that politicians (whatever party) are that Machiavellian then something is wrong.

Mine are.

I really don't buy this whole 'Blairite conspiracy' argument - a lot of the rhetoric largely coming (it would appear) from Momentum I find very aggressive, playing on paranoia and a big turn off. All of which seems to contradict the new form of politics I thought JC was trying to introduce. Its all a bit Animal Farm

It reminds me of 1984. No matter what Corbyn does he's going to get fucked over by the machine, despite his best intentions (if they are to be believed...). It's all quite sad really.

[Teaboy]

JC has pretty much likened Israel to ISIS ...

He hasn't, unless you really want to twist the meaning. I'm no fan of JC (either of them, the King of the Jews and the supposed hater of them)

You are right - literally he has not compared them. But by mentioning them both in the same metaphor ~ its a bloody obvious link the press (and subsequently several prominent Jewish politicians) have made.

I winced when I heard it (and re-read it) - its a really really stupid thing to say in (a) public (b) when there are TV cameras there (c) when your job is on the line and most importantly (d) when you are launching a report into antisemitism in the Labour party. You've to admit its not the safest thing to say is it.... Possibly at a time when its not sensible to draw attention (or controversy) to himself...?

He should have been more savvy and realise that people with an agenda would make a big deal of it, I guess I'm surprised that intelligent people without a vested interest would be as well. Obviously there are leagues of difference between the way Israel behave and the way ISIS behave but they have behaved pretty reprehensibly and it is fair to make the comparison between people equating Israel's actions with Jewishness and those equating ISIS' actions with Muslims. By saying this is anti Semitic then you are essentially saying being anti Israel is the same as being anti Semitic.

[Jaspersharpe]

TomTom,

I'm amazed you don't 'buy' the Blairite conspiracy stuff. It's er, all there for everybody to see? I can't even call it the elephant in the room, it's more obvious than that. The fact that the Blairites actually announced their plot in the telegraph 10 days before the actual referendum says volumes about the whole thing. Or the fact that Angela Eagle was registering websites for her leadership contest in....2015!

Did you read the canary article on the Fabian Society? it's mind-boggling

It's so childish though. Blair is long gone (despite his wishes). Why does everyone have to be tarred with that brush because they don't agree that Corbyn is the best leader to challenge for power?

Common sense has gone out of the window. "You're a Blairite!" therefore unacceptable as party leader. It's fucking nonsense.

People are happy to vote for a lying, Eton cunt who stuck his cock in a pig's mouth but apparently they shouldn't vote for anyone even mildly associated with the ex PM from their own party. It's one eyed rubbish akin to the "Clegg lied so don't vote Lib Dem" crap that got us to this awful place we're in.

I call bullshit on the lot of it. David Miliband should have been leader of the Labour party for the last election. Andy Burnham should have been elected leader after the election.

I don't care about their connections to Blair. It's fucking irrelevant about what happens NOW.

[tomtom]

^^ this.

Get over this Blairite stuff - you raving Trot (note the smiley please..)

I don't buy the Telegrapg signposting the wholesale PLP rebellion against JC. I read the Torygraph every other day (except now - it's more unbearable than usual) and articles about unseating JC are about as common as Express headlines about apocalyptic winters, or mega heatwaves coming. [edit] I've now read the Canary articles - and I agree that the Pride Corbyn grilling looked fishy (I thought it was a bit incongruous at the time). I'll also comment, that it would not surprise me that there was some organisation behind some of the resignations. But I'll also say that MP's are not daft - and whilst one or two might have been duped into following a trend - within the (now extensive - 70?) list of resignations there are several firebreaks. That is MP's/Shadow ministers who I would consider to be certainly left of centre - several who were certainly JC suppporters. Its clearly not all some big conspiracy - the sheer number means there is something fundamentally wrong with how he is leading the PLP. Did you see the film of him talking to a crowd of his supporters yesterday - or weds evening - where he was challenged from the audience "Where were you on Europe Jeremy when we needed you most?". He stopped - no answer - looked like a real rabbit in the headlights and left the stage (it was probably the end anyway).

I'll repeat what a Corbyn fan friend of mine tweeted last week "I voted for a tiger, and got a stranded whale"....

Eagle is no panacea - the lack of people willing to stick their head above the parapet (Watson included) sadly says volumes about the state of affairs.

So JC fans, how much of this is from the man himself or from McDonnell, or Seamus Momentum? - from the outside it looks more and more like he's being manipulated from behind... a rather unwilling figurehead...

[SA Chris]

We could possibly see female leaders in all 3 major parties though. That would cause some intense negotiations once a month.

[slackline]

 

[tomtom]

We could possibly see female leaders in all 3 major parties though. That would cause some intense negotiations once a month.

Though in the houses of parliament that would mean either Alex Salmond or Tim Farron cross dressing?

I would certainly (hopefully?) change the dynamic of PMQ's...

[rich d]

Although we only ever see this through the lens of the media, JC comes across as unable to galvanize support from key people, unable and or unwilling to talk effectively through the media and therefore communicate a clear easily understood message to the public. Surely all these are key elements in being a PM, especially if you are aiming to be leading the brexit talks after a general election that you hope to win.

[Will Hunt]

+1 to what Jasper and TomTom said.

Suffice to say that if you read and believe everything that one particular heavily biased media outlet says (and that goes for the Sun or the Canary) then don't be surprised when you become convinced that the whole world is out to get you.

I think Corbyn is a decent person. I don't think he's an anti-Semite. But I think that anybody who is so naïve as to mention Netanyahu and Israel in the same breath as ISIS at the launch of their anti-Semitism investigation is cripplingly unsuited to be leader of the party. When Eagle launches her campaign I'd be surprised if the ticket didn't state that Corbyn could have a significant shadow cabinet portfolio. Surely he could do more for his country as a powerful opponent of Tory excess in the role of shadow Work and Pensions secretary than he could as a completely ineffectual leader.

Canary readers! Wake up! The man can't even fill the front bench! There are something like 80 unfilled shadow secretary vacancies as of this morning! Some of those who resigned were long time friends and allies who delivered resignation letters brimming with regret. It's not all just a "Blairite plot". I'm amazed so many young people are still supporting him when he singularly let them down on Europe - the most important single issue of our time and one that was of critical importance to those who elected him.

[36chambers]

Hogwash.

[tomtom]

Hogwash.

Thats for Cameron... after the act.

[petejh]

For all those who on here who support Corbyn and would like to see him remain as party leader - this is actually something you can have a say in. Join the Labour Party online for £3.95 and you get to cast your vote if it comes to a leadership election.

I'm not a natural Lab supporter but I'd like to see JC remain because he seems to have integrity and believes in his ideas -  lets look at the reality (Jasper), until a strong lLabour leader emerges, which they haven't yet, Labour haven't a snowballs' chance of winning a GE anytime soon against Terresa May. No-one among the Labour MPs currently fits the bill .. I don't know that much about D.Milliband's situation and how he's viewed in Lab (I'm not a supporter) but this seems a perfect moment for him to start preparing for a leadership contest later in the year. In the meantime a politics of Corbyn and Teressa May would be welcomed by the public. Two principled leaders with substance, not showboating but debating.

Apologies to anyone if that's too boring or unrealistic. Back to the hysteria and cynicism.

[Will Hunt]

Hogwash.

You've used that on social media already. Why not say "Poppycock". Even better, actually use an argument of substance and convince me I'm wrong!

[seankenny]

I think Corbyn is a decent person. I don't think he's an anti-Semite. But I think that anybody who is so naïve as to mention Netanyahu and Israel in the same breath as ISIS at the launch of their anti-Semitism investigation is cripplingly unsuited to be leader of the party. When Eagle launches her campaign I'd be surprised if the ticket didn't state that Corbyn could have a significant shadow cabinet portfolio. Surely he could do more for his country as a powerful opponent of Tory excess in the role of shadow Work and Pensions secretary than he could as a completely ineffectual leader.

This is all sensible stuff.

I've worked at several large aid agencies whilst Israel fought wars in Gaza. Needless to say, we were critical of Israeli policies but very carefully so, and do you know how we did that: we just said what they'd done and how it broke various international laws. No need to compare them to anything except the standards they were supposed to be upholding.

As for why he's still there... it's clear that the people who wrote the current rules didn't bother putting one in because it was obvious that a leader without the support of his/her MPs had to stand down. Corbyn doesn't give a fig for those norms. In the way he's playing to the letter of the law rather than its spirit, he's not so different from the tax avoiding multi-nationals he claims to oppose.

[jwi]

Mr Corbyn's antisemitic dog whistle was certainly loud enough to be clearly heard all the way to France.

[TheTwig]

I find it amazing that JC is 'destroying' the party, and is 'unelectable'.

Last I saw Labour were even with the tories in the polls (the highest since JC was elected), and membership was and is booming (even before the EU ref / coup)

JC has the overwhelming support of local parties and the labour membership at large. In my mind it is the MP's that have to go, not him.

We really are living in a post-facts world

[slackline]

Back on topic...

EU Trade Commissioner: No trade talks until full Brexit


Seemed wishful thinking to me, and yet more 'Have your cake and eat it' mentality, of the Leave camp that they'd be able to get negotiations before deciding whether to enact Article 50 as enacting it is meant to begin a two year period of negotiations.


At least there's some  humor to be had...


The Brexit Plan 

[tomtom]

Yes, but the overall who would you vote for polls mean shit when it comes to a GE - because its down to winning seats in constituencies. For Labour to win a GE, they have to convince a significant proportion of those who have voted Tory and UKIP to vote for them....

Maybe its who we respectively know, but for me - all my labour voting friends and family are not JC supporters... Which interestingly includes my parents neighbours, retired - but were former Communist Party members and did the whole Socialist Worker campaigning shizzle for 20 years in London..

Winning power is about gaining the middle ground. Blair won if from the Tories, Cameron won it back from Labour (with a little help from the Lib Dems) and now owns if fully (until he resigned). You may hate Blair (I'm guessing here! ) but he was right about two things (1) you have to win the middle to get in power - which means to win over people who would not normally vote labour and (2) you can't change a thing unless you are in power.

Do you REALLY think JC is going to win over left/moderate/soft Tory voters?

Personally, I think the most important change required in UK politics is PR. Not AV, proper PR. This would allow UKIP/BNP whatever to have a small presence and keep 'those people' happy with their representation (1.5 million UKIP voters last time and 1 MP??) - but put the two large parties in a tricky position. It would also allow Labour (for example) to split to a Momentum style left, and a left of centre social democrat party - yet maybe come together for coalition and government etc...

I think Labour, or the Lib Dems (but probably Labour) need to grow a pair an put this on the table. Give people a REAL opportunity to change things.

[Oldmanmatt]

http://thebrexitplan.com/



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