[Fultonius]

Just nail a chocolate Yazoo.

3:1 ratio of carbs to protein.
50p a dose.
Doesn't taste like ass.

Shame about the horrific sugar levels...

[bedrock]

Home made recovery shake:
2 tbs green and blacks cocoa powder
1tbs sugar
400ml milk

Cheap. Easy. Tastes good!


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[monkoffunk]

Home made recovery shake:
2 tbs green and blacks cocoa powder
1tbs sugar
400ml milk

You could mod this but rather than refined sugar and milk I tend to go
125ml pot natural yoghurt
Small banana
Heaped teaspoon raw cacao powder
Scoop protein
Tea spoon chia seeds (prob not doing much...)
Water to top up

That was for recovery post days out in font, and seemed to work nicely! Prob more than required protein in there for post fingerboard, but I prefer it to added sugar.

[blacky]

Kit-kat. Or a fudge after weighted hangs.

[duncan]

Here in N.London we eat smoked salmon sandwichs, salt-beef bagels or tuna sushi for that post-workout 1:4 protein:carbohydrate snack!

In truth I've barely fingerboarded and never felt the need for anything in particular after the micro sessions I've done.

After 600m on the autobelay, chilled chocolate milk tastes great and has that authentic Yosemite vibe.

[Reprobate_Rob]

Just nail a chocolate Yazoo.

3:1 ratio of carbs to protein.
50p a dose.
Doesn't taste like ass.

Shame about the horrific sugar levels...

No, it's not. That what provides the carbs in the 3:1 ratio and replaces blood sugar levels after doing some exercise.
If you're that fucking set on demonising sugar just nail a pint of skimmed milk for your protein and wander round in a daze all afternoon with low blood sugar.
Or just drink some water. That must be good for you - it's got fuck-all in it

[JohnM]

Eat some good quality wood chip.  All wood types are surprisingly hard to masticate but I recommend something with a fine texture such as American tulip wood.

[chris20]

Scotch egg, job done.

[Fultonius]

Just nail a chocolate Yazoo.

3:1 ratio of carbs to protein.
50p a dose.
Doesn't taste like ass.

Shame about the horrific sugar levels...

No, it's not. That what provides the carbs in the 3:1 ratio and replaces blood sugar levels after doing some exercise.
If you're that fucking set on demonising sugar just nail a pint of skimmed milk for your protein and wander round in a daze all afternoon with low blood sugar.
Or just drink some water. That must be good for you - it's got fuck-all in it

Low blood sugar....after a fingerboard set. Mental. 

[Fultonius]

P.S. anyone with good SCIENCE on the 3:1 or 4:1 ratio thing?

The only paper I ever saw didn't control for calories, so the 4:1 carbs to protein lot got 25% more calories than the 4:0 (i.e. no protein) set. No wonder they recovered better...

And this was for endurance athletes, not people dangling around on their fingers.

[slackline]

P.S. anyone with good SCIENCE on the 3:1 or 4:1 ratio thing?

The only paper I ever saw didn't control for calories, so the 4:1 carbs to protein lot got 25% more calories than the 4:0 (i.e. no protein) set. No wonder they recovered better...

And this was for endurance athletes, not people dangling around on their fingers.

No idea if any of these are the one you've seen and I've not read them so no idea if they're "good" SCIENCE but Scholar points to these ...

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0264041031000140527
http://jap.physiology.org/content/106/4/1394.abstract
http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.559.3325&rep=rep1&type=pdf
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/138/11/2198.short

PubMed could be used to find the papers each cites and those that cite the above for anyone interested (I'm not so haven't looked this up).

[Luke Owens]

hey petejh, I just finished reading the article you linked at, it's really interesting. have you got some suggestions for snacks or food combination that gives that 4:1 ratio that is recommend? in the article they give this example, which I am not particularly too excited about (don't like butter): 1/4 cup of nut butter with 3/4 cup of apple and banana slices
many thanks
q

Petejh and I were at the crag once and he pulled out one of them fancy 3:1 ratio bars at the end of the sesh. The baked bean pasty I had had the correct 3:1 ratio. His chemical bar cost about £3 my pasty cost about 50p 

[petejh]

Just nail a chocolate Yazoo.

3:1 ratio of carbs to protein.
50p a dose.
Doesn't taste like ass.

Shame about the horrific sugar levels...

No, it's not. That what provides the carbs in the 3:1 ratio and replaces blood sugar levels after doing some exercise.
If you're that fucking set on demonising sugar just nail a pint of skimmed milk for your protein and wander round in a daze all afternoon with low blood sugar.
Or just drink some water. That must be good for you - it's got fuck-all in it

'Carbs' encompasses Starch and Sugar (and Fiber, not really relevant to recovery meals). You could get your 'carbs' from eating wholegrain foods or starchy veg etc. without touching 'sugar'. Not that anyone's suggesting you should avoid all 'sugar'.

'Sugar':
Glucose
Lactose (milk etc)
Maltose (beer etc)
Fructose
'Sucrose' (comprising 50% glucose / 50% fructose)


Fructose is the one to limit. DYOR research for evidence why, there's plenty out there. Apart from that 'sugar' is good/essential following depletion of muscle glycogen or intensive mental work - just not all the time i.e. for office lunch. Something millions of people, to the detriment of their health, seem unable to understand.

[petejh]

Fructose
Fructose is a sugar found naturally in many fruits and vegetables, and added to various beverages such as soda and fruit-flavored drinks. However, it is very different from other sugars because it has a different metabolic pathway and is not the preferred energy source for muscles or the brain. Fructose is only metabolized in the liver and relies on fructokinase to initiate metabolism. It is also more lipogenic, or fat-producing, than glucose. Unlike glucose, too, it does not cause insulin to be released or stimulate production of leptin, a key hormone for regulating energy intake and expenditure. These factors raise concerns about chronically high intakes of dietary fructose, because it appears to behave more like fat in the body than like other carbohydrates.

Sucrose
Sucrose is commonly known as table sugar, and is obtained from sugar cane or sugar beets. Fruits and vegetables also naturally contain sucrose. When sucrose is consumed, the enzyme beta-fructosidase separates sucrose into its individual sugar units of glucose and fructose. Both sugars are then taken up by their specific transport mechanisms. The body responds to the glucose content of the meal in its usual manner; however, fructose uptake occurs at the same time. The body will use glucose as its main energy source and the excess energy from fructose, if not needed, will be poured into fat synthesis, which is stimulated by the insulin released in response to glucose.

Glucose
The most important monosaccharide is glucose, the body’s preferred energy source. Glucose is also called blood sugar, as it circulates in the blood, and relies on the enzymes glucokinase or hexokinase to initiate metabolism. Your body processes most carbohydrates you eat into glucose, either to be used immediately for energy or to be stored in muscle cells or the liver as glycogen for later use. Unlike fructose, insulin is secreted primarily in response to elevated blood concentrations of glucose, and insulin facilitates the entry of glucose into cells.

http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/difference-between-sucrose-glucose-fructose-8704.html

[Reprobate_Rob]

Thanks for the clarification there Pete. I'm not unaware of the 16 pages of sugar-SCIENCE that has happened on the other thread though 
Suffice to say I don't live off chocolate milkshake alone. I also do some exercise other than fingerboarding.
I am merely suggesting, as thousands of athletes, professional and part-time, endurance and power based, have been saying for years - that chocolate milkshake makes a good post-workout recovery drink. It's cheap, convenient, readily available and has this magical, mystical carb:protein ratio (about which I can quote no scientific evidence).

And I don't know about you Fultonius, but I tend to do more than one set in a fingerboard session 

[petejh]

Thanks for the clarification there Pete. I'm not unaware of the 16 pages of sugar-SCIENCE that has happened on the other thread though 
Suffice to say I don't live off chocolate milkshake alone. I also do some exercise other than fingerboarding.
I am merely suggesting, as thousands of athletes, professional and part-time, endurance and power based, have been saying for years - that chocolate milkshake makes a good post-workout recovery drink.

And I don't know about you Fultonius, but I tend to do more than one set in a fingerboard session 

I don't think anyone's arguing choccy milk isn't sufficient for a post workout carb/protein hit, are they?

Fultonius mentioned the sugar content which prompted you to go off on one about how essential sugar is.

It's cheap, convenient, readily available and has this magical, mystical carb:protein ratio (about which I can quote no scientific evidence).

It always makes me laugh when people put in asides like this - the implication being that because you aren't familiar with something means that the evidence for it must be somewhat lacking.

Try doing some research, there's plenty of scientific research around the subject - I'd HLMGTFY it but, to quote Stewart Lee, it'd be like playing classical music to a dog 

[Reprobate_Rob]

You've missed my point entirely Pete. I'm not suggesting there's no evidence, but Fultonius asked so I was pointing out I didn't have any. I'm quite sure there's plenty out there, but like that dog you mention, I've got better things to do with my time than research sugar and listen to classical music.

[monkoffunk]

Post workout recovery sugar is recognised to be beneficial for depleting glycogen stores. You won't get low blood sugar after a fingerboard session, or pretty much any training session. Even starving yourself won't do it. You would die quickly without food if that happened, and actually you last for ages; dieing when your protein is so depleted that your heart stops. I've tested the blood sugar of some muslim friends late in the day during ramadan, and it was the same as mine. Would stay similar for days and days.

That aside, from a recovery perspective I don't see the point in added sugar, or necking anything with loads of refined sugar pre, during or post a workout. There is plenty of easily accessible sugar in loads of things, particularly fruit, also has the added benefit of some more complex carbs and plenty of other nutrients. That would totally sort you out. Really the only situation I can think of when you'd want to spike your blood sugar is when you are an insulin dependant diabetic having a hypo. Even then, the one type 1 diabetic I know personally carries apples around with her which does the job.

Instinctively (not read any studies) the ratios should probably be taken with a massive pinch of salt. If you go a bit overboard on the protein say, you'll just use it for energy, excrete it or ultimately turn it to fat. Likewise with the sugar. In terms of muscle recovery that's all irrelevant.

[TheTwig]

Tofu and some potatoes, with olive oil based curry sauce, you heard it here first  (I'm vegan)