Lots of info about how to help/prevent/fix Golfers - but not much about what specific climbing action causes it?I ask as I've slightly (managable) tweaky elbows at the moment - but can't pin down what 'type' of climbing action seems to aggravate it. E.G is it crimping, big compression moves, pinches... (those are just suggestions - I have not idea really)... When I had tennis elbow 20 odd years back - it was clearly related to pullups (mainly doing too many) but I can't pin these present niggles to anything specific...
I am never on campus...
Quote from: tomtom on January 26, 2016, 05:45:04 pmI am never on campus...Doesn't surprise me, academics these days......
Golfer's elbow is medial epicondylitis/osis....a problem of the forearm muscles insertion at the elbow. Rowing is a pulling action and stresses the same tendons, so that seems an improbable cure ....I found campussing quite bad for my elbows, I'd be wary of it if you're also climbing a fair bit.
Its probably nothing to do with the actual elbows or any specific climbing action that causes it, I reckon in most cases it'll be down to something in back and/or shoulders.
Quote from: mrjonathanr on January 26, 2016, 05:44:21 pmGolfer's elbow is medial epicondylitis/osis....a problem of the forearm muscles insertion at the elbow. Rowing is a pulling action and stresses the same tendons, so that seems an improbable cure ....I found campussing quite bad for my elbows, I'd be wary of it if you're also climbing a fair bit.Speculation isn't super helpful. I don't pretend to know names of muscles and the like. However...elbow pain can be related to muscle imbalance. Really strong chest muscles pull your shoulders forward. This causes the tendons to be under constant tension and the elbows pay the price. If this is the case, visual cures are evident. That hunched posture that you see at the wall only too often. Sleeping on your side in bed too. Rowing strengthens the back. As you row you need to pinch your shoulder blades together. Don't pull into your chest, pull into your stomach. Using a bar is just as, if not more so, effective as having a rowing machine.Unless of course golfers elbow is something different.Good luck. TT
I haven't had a flair up for a while( famous last words) but I can feel a twinge when doing dumbbell bent over rows. Last time it faired up was when I injured my leg so I was doing pull,ups and dead hanging.I might be back on here next week asking for advise.
Can I just blame the government?
I've found dead hanging (slightly bent elbows) bit with no pull ups or that type of movement was fine for my elbows. Even on small crimps.
Quote from: dave on January 26, 2016, 06:02:42 pmIts probably nothing to do with the actual elbows or any specific climbing action that causes it, I reckon in most cases it'll be down to something in back and/or shoulders.This was certainly the case with me when I had it badly. Thoracic spine problems and nerve impingement in the shoulder are through bad posture/computer work was the root cause of the initial niggles which then flared up due to climbing and too much fingerboarding (that is climbing aggressively aggravated an existing condition rather than being the cause of the problem). The first physio I went to sorted out the golfers elbow and he continued with this diagnosis even when it came back. A change of physio and a new diagnosis determined the root cause and fixed it pretty quickly. Deadlifting then stopped it happening again.
For me it's not so much to do with what the elbow is doing but more what the wrist is doing. Anecdotally I've suffered from tendonitis for the last 15 or so years but keep it in check these days with an understanding of what hurts it and what helps it. When I first started getting it I would just try to keep climbing on easier problems at the wall but this just made it worse. I later realised I could train on my 55 without any pain at all. I believe this is because a bent wrist position stretches and aggravates the tendon more than a straight wrist position. So climbing on jugs down the wall, your wrist is bent the whole time as your hand is going right into the jug, whereas hanging on a steep board on small edges your wrist is straight so no pain. When it does flare up, I do reverse wrist curls with a heavy dumbbell and this really helps.
Quote from: tomtom on January 26, 2016, 04:46:18 pmLots of info about how to help/prevent/fix Golfers - but not much about what specific climbing action causes it?I ask as I've slightly (managable) tweaky elbows at the moment - but can't pin down what 'type' of climbing action seems to aggravate it. E.G is it crimping, big compression moves, pinches... (those are just suggestions - I have not idea really)... When I had tennis elbow 20 odd years back - it was clearly related to pullups (mainly doing too many) but I can't pin these present niggles to anything specific...I've had a few golfers elbow twinges mainly from the gym rather than climbing. What always brings in on for me is stress on pronator teres when hand it rotated outwards or flat to the wall, pull up bar, deadlift bar or mouse/steering wheel as moose pointed out. That's obviously not very helpful because you can't do much about it. I did once use one of those ergonomic keyboards which felt quite comfy. In the gym I can avoid stressing it fairly easily using different bar types. From memory I think Dave Mac's injury book highlights crimping, especially with hands close together as when doing pullups on a narrow fingerboard as tough on pronator teres, but I might be totally imagining that because it fits my theory.
Quote from: Schnell on January 26, 2016, 05:09:28 pmQuote from: tomtom on January 26, 2016, 04:46:18 pmLots of info about how to help/prevent/fix Golfers - but not much about what specific climbing action causes it?I ask as I've slightly (managable) tweaky elbows at the moment - but can't pin down what 'type' of climbing action seems to aggravate it. E.G is it crimping, big compression moves, pinches... (those are just suggestions - I have not idea really)... When I had tennis elbow 20 odd years back - it was clearly related to pullups (mainly doing too many) but I can't pin these present niggles to anything specific...I've had a few golfers elbow twinges mainly from the gym rather than climbing. What always brings in on for me is stress on pronator teres when hand it rotated outwards or flat to the wall, pull up bar, deadlift bar or mouse/steering wheel as moose pointed out. That's obviously not very helpful because you can't do much about it. I did once use one of those ergonomic keyboards which felt quite comfy. In the gym I can avoid stressing it fairly easily using different bar types. From memory I think Dave Mac's injury book highlights crimping, especially with hands close together as when doing pullups on a narrow fingerboard as tough on pronator teres, but I might be totally imagining that because it fits my theory.I have not come across that advice in Make or Break yet. He mentions that deep locks are a cause and recommends more dynamic climbing, although as always he says more research is needed.
Typical pattern is onset a couple of days after activity.
Interestingly also recently discovered how much posture can affect arm strength/power when there's a bit of shoulder/neck nerve impingemnt involved. A subtle chin tuck is all it takes to notice a difference in my right arm.