Quote from: tomtom on January 15, 2016, 05:54:07 pmAlccap or Alcpow?Accapi?
Alccap or Alcpow?
My question:You recently mentioned something about people doing wasted miles at the climbing wall. I was wondering whether you could clarify what that it is as I am beginning to wonder if I am doing wasted miles. My "stam" training at the wall tends to revolve around climbing 7b-7c to the top feeling a medium to high level of pump and then down climbing 6c-7a shaking out and trying to recover and then re-climbing the same up route fighting the pump all the way. I get a pretty high level of pump after this and then rest 15 mins and then try and do another 2-3 sets.1. Is this wasted miles?2. What am I actually training (anaerobic capacity etc?)?
Right.... what shall I do? Start at the first Q back on page 2 and work through? How many of the drug related Sublime questions to ask (very valid questions)... etc etc. Where's sensible thinking moderator when you need one?
Cheers for offering to do this! Not sure if you read through my thread you originally posted on Tommy but I'll ask on here anyway.I'm currently into the 2nd week of a 11 week training plan geared towards 2 short 7c routes which are basicly bouldery and involve ~15 move sequences. The moves are fine in isolation but when linking I power out. This is what also happens to me on every route I redpoint, I rarely get pumped or find moves hard in isolation I just power out quickly when linking sections of hard moves. I've bouldered 7A/+ and redpointed 7b+ but still power out on ~7a routes at the best of times. Never figured out what the missing link is but just climbing alone never seemed to improve this. There was mixed opinions on the other thread as to how much importance I should pay to each energy system during this plan given the short time frame; some saying not to do any AeroCap/Pow at all and concentrate on strength and AnCap/Pow. What would you recommend (Don't worry about to much detail) and what is the importance (if any) of AeroCap/Pow when it comes to short routes?Sorry for the long question, cheers!
What? I thought he was supposed to be putting the kids to bed!?
Quote from: Luke Owens on January 13, 2016, 08:06:58 pmCheers for offering to do this! Not sure if you read through my thread you originally posted on Tommy but I'll ask on here anyway.I'm currently into the 2nd week of a 11 week training plan geared towards 2 short 7c routes which are basicly bouldery and involve ~15 move sequences. The moves are fine in isolation but when linking I power out. This is what also happens to me on every route I redpoint, I rarely get pumped or find moves hard in isolation I just power out quickly when linking sections of hard moves. I've bouldered 7A/+ and redpointed 7b+ but still power out on ~7a routes at the best of times. Never figured out what the missing link is but just climbing alone never seemed to improve this. There was mixed opinions on the other thread as to how much importance I should pay to each energy system during this plan given the short time frame; some saying not to do any AeroCap/Pow at all and concentrate on strength and AnCap/Pow. What would you recommend (Don't worry about to much detail) and what is the importance (if any) of AeroCap/Pow when it comes to short routes?Sorry for the long question, cheers!Yours first Luke as you're keen. So the question is if you're quite capable of doing the moves, but as soon as you get a certain way into something you power out and thus can't hold on? And you don't get a hideous pump? Then it can potentially be a few things - never a simple answer eh?! 1. What I see the most of: people have overly developed the anaerobic system and rely on this primarily for energy. It only runs for a limited time at max. They power out. 2. What I see less of: people have a poorly developed aerobic AND anaerobic system. Thus they need to be overly strong for the route and will only keep going once they have utilised as much as they can of the anaerobic alactic and what ever they can out of the anaerobic lactic. They power out. Solution - depends on which of the above you're more likely to be. 1. You develop you anaerobic system harder and work the aerobic system in conjunction so that AnCap doesn't shut down so early. 2. You work on better base strength so you can get away with over powering the route on option 2.
Quote from: JohnM on January 15, 2016, 04:52:05 pmMy question:You recently mentioned something about people doing wasted miles at the climbing wall. I was wondering whether you could clarify what that it is as I am beginning to wonder if I am doing wasted miles. My "stam" training at the wall tends to revolve around climbing 7b-7c to the top feeling a medium to high level of pump and then down climbing 6c-7a shaking out and trying to recover and then re-climbing the same up route fighting the pump all the way. I get a pretty high level of pump after this and then rest 15 mins and then try and do another 2-3 sets.1. Is this wasted miles?2. What am I actually training (anaerobic capacity etc?)?+1 for this. I thought aerocap is "pumped but in control" which means I can get quite pumped - over say 6 reps of a 10m wall on an autobelay. But is this wasted miles? What sort of aerocap effort/duration should I be looking at for either Euro endurance routes or UK trad, ie Pembroke-esque pitches?
Since there seems to be cross over between strength and anaerobic capacity work - would a sensible approach for those who are time limited be to focus on anaerobic capacity and aerobic capacity?
Quote from: seankenny on January 15, 2016, 08:28:32 pmQuote from: JohnM on January 15, 2016, 04:52:05 pmMy question:You recently mentioned something about people doing wasted miles at the climbing wall. I was wondering whether you could clarify what that it is as I am beginning to wonder if I am doing wasted miles. My "stam" training at the wall tends to revolve around climbing 7b-7c to the top feeling a medium to high level of pump and then down climbing 6c-7a shaking out and trying to recover and then re-climbing the same up route fighting the pump all the way. I get a pretty high level of pump after this and then rest 15 mins and then try and do another 2-3 sets.1. Is this wasted miles?2. What am I actually training (anaerobic capacity etc?)?+1 for this. I thought aerocap is "pumped but in control" which means I can get quite pumped - over say 6 reps of a 10m wall on an autobelay. But is this wasted miles? What sort of aerocap effort/duration should I be looking at for either Euro endurance routes or UK trad, ie Pembroke-esque pitches?You should consider aerobic capacity training as anything which results in an improvement in your aerocap. It's kind of that simple! But.... of course there are some methods which are more efficient than others and some which will work better for your personal goals. AeroCap can be a whole range of intensities and volumes and rest periods - if you're stressing the aerobic system, then it's going to have benefits. Over the years, I've found that the middle zone of climbing just about in control has worse results than splitting the intensity - it's simply an observation from writing hundreds of plans and looking at what happens. I've likewise tried these things out with my own climbing. I haven't trained in that middle zone for perhaps 4-5 years now? BUT..... I do think it still have some use at certain times of the year - in particular as a transition into the peak period of training for route climbers. Try and think of it not being a perfect answer for every scenario. It has its place, but think about why you're using it.
I've got two, possibly silly, questions with regards to bouldering. 1) Is periodisation (as addressed in RCTM and Barrow's Training for sport climbing) the best way to improve in the long run for someone who doesn't necessarily care about training for an upcoming trip/peaking?(I'm aware both documents are primarily aimed at sport climbing.) Furthermore, 2) Is it still worthwhile trying to follow (or design) a periodisation training plan, if I still plan on climbing outside (and performing to some degree) every weekend? [If it makes any difference I'm currently trying to establish myself in the high 7's/low 8's.]
So for a climber aspiring to climb in the mid 8s say what would an example of training the end zone be for example?
+1 for question 1If you aren't training for a specific route does your approach change? Work on the caps and strength rather than the pows? Thanks!
Cheers Tom, I guess I fall into catagory 1, I can recover pretty well on rests and climb with a pump so aerobicly I guess I'm OK. I seem to power out 6 moves into both of my projects so must be just relying on my anerobic system which fails early on. I've already been working AnCap lately as part of my plan. By working the Aerobic system in conjuction would that include AeroPow as well as AeroCap?Cheers
Q1)Am I strong enough to do Fisheye? ;-)Q2)In your training beta podcast/interview you discuss relative peak forces the human forearm can create. What do you consider to be a maximum for the human forearm? 80kg? More?
Tom, I had a question on the adaptation times for different energy systems. My interpretation of the Binney material was this:Ancap: 16 week adaptation timeAerocap: 8+ week adaptation timeAnpow: 4-6 week adaptation timeAerocap: 6 week adaptation timeIs this right? Is there any point including eg. ancap in your training if you aren't going to stay the course for 16 consistent weeks?