[theemoominhunter]

Are you assuming Id do that Dave?

No need to get angry either

[theemoominhunter]

and why would you 'naturally' take the gear home?

[mrjonathanr]

It is interesting to see how people dress up taking something that doesn't belong to them it's really that simple.

Please reconsider.

It's abandoned on a lump of rock...there is no reason to be precious or perverse about it. As for them taking stuff you consider is still yours, they can with justification consider that you are littering a shared space which is most definitely theirs.

The ethics of crag booty have been around for years and I get it.

Obviously not.

The bottom line is that it's nice if people leave alone the kit you left behind, but you haven't really got any grounds for complaint if they don't.

[theemoominhunter]

Obviously. That's why I leave stuff alone

[Bonjoy]

It's not theft by virtue of it being the overwhelming consensus view that you relinquish ownership of a single biner left on a random bolt when you leave the crag. This being consensus is evidenced by everyone on this thread disagreeing with you. It's a fact that virtually everyone knows, understands and agrees with. It is agreed with because it makes perfect sense and keeps crags tidy. And so you loose a crab today, big deal, you pick up someone else's bail biner tomorrow.

Face it, you lost this argument a long time ago.

[theemoominhunter]

It wasn't an argument. If everyone else is happy to lift stuff then that's ok  I'll be sticking with my principles of leaving things as I find them even if it takes me another 20 mins to put a bina back.

Bet no one helps clean the crag tho

Bonjoy, if I loose a bina today, I'll not pinch someone else's tomorrow and face it, you failed to see the bigger picture.

I found a bet at eatswood a few years ago stuffed into a crack. Should I have 'cleaned' that away?

[theemoominhunter]

By bet I mean net

[TobyD]

I cant believe how would up you're getting about this krab. I'd have taken it. so would pretty much anyone. It's clearly not theft, anymore than picking up a tenner from a gutter on an empty street would be.

[theemoominhunter]

But that's the point, I'm not getting wound up.

[Stu Littlefair]

The thing I don't understand is that you obviously half expected to lose it, or you'd have left a draw in.


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[theemoominhunter]

The tenner from the gutter analogy doesn't hold water tho. It's more like a tenner left blue tacked to your front door

[theemoominhunter]

Stu, someone would have taken the draw

[rodma]

The tenner from the gutter analogy doesn't hold water tho. It's more like a tenner left blue tacked to your front door

No its like a 10mm diameter obstruction, that someone left in a hanger on I type I am trying to onsight, I can either clip into it, fiddle my draw in alongside it,take it out first and throw it at my belayer, or better still take it out and clip it on my harness. Christ that was some pumpy decision making.

Sardinia was awful for this. Some pretty run out routes on very polished rock, with loose bolts and i could barely squeeze my own draw in alongside the bail biners, which wasn't helped much by the spinning hangers. I didn't leave any ball bummers (SwiftKey did that not me ) on Sardinia at all for this reason, even though I used to in Britain, if (most usually when ) I got too scared to carry on, but I never really considered how shit it was for the next climber until I was in Sardinia.

If you are going to leave bail biners, leave them with an apologetic note. It's traddies that line fiddling around with shit on the lead, not sport chuffers

[andy popp]

It's more like a tenner left blue tacked to your front door

No, it just isn't.

[petejh]

For how long does your theft definition hold Themoominhunter?

It's just I've been waiting for the person who left these to come back for them but it's been twenty years now...



Don't want to be accused of stealing..

[mrjonathanr]

Edit:
I posted a sarcastic reply then thought better of it.

[dpb]

I wonder what the state of some routes/crags would be if every bail biner/draw/wire/cam/sling etc ever left insitu had always been left insitu on the off chance someone was coming back for them?

[Oldmanmatt]

Once accreted Bail Biners may only be removed by a BMC approved Palaeontologist... 


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[tomtom]

Once accreted Bail Biners may only be removed by a BMC approved Palaeontologist... 

I suspect a carbonate sedimentologist might be more use there... Or someone with a beard

[andy_e]

At what point does tat become part of the rock enough to count as a hold?

[petejh]

For me it's usually at the point of encountering the crux

[Oldmanmatt]

Often, if no-one's watching...


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[Will Hunt]

This thread is either a troll or else perhaps the OP has learning difficulties. I think their point has been adequately disproven some time ago. Anything more is gratuitous enjoyment of another's lack of mental faculty.

Lock and log.

[petejh]

...gratuitous enjoyment of another's lack of mental faculty.

Isn't that all of UKB? Half the reason for logging on is to laugh at someone (me) for being a fucktard and you'd have to lock n log all of Dense's posts.

[Bonjoy]

Bet no one helps clean the crag tho

You bet wrong, lots of folk on here take random litter away from the crag. There's a thread dedicated to it in fact. Me and Highrepute took six bin bags full away from crag X last month. How about you?

I found a net at eatswood a few years ago stuffed into a crack. Should I have 'cleaned' that away?

Mea culpa. You'd have done me a favour if you had.