[ali k]

Tentatively planning to visit these areas for a 2 week trip some time in March/April next year (with a view to gaining a modicum of crack technique for a potential longer trip in the Autumn). Some general questions coming to mind on realising I'm a bit clueless...

1) Is this a good time to take in both single pitch in Indian Creek and longer stuff in Zion/Desert towers or is it likely to be too hot for one and cold for the other? If it'll be ok then any time better than another? (i.e. early March vs late April, any US holidays to avoid? etc)

2) Is 2 weeks too short to fit in a decent amount at a few different areas? Was thinking of something like a week in Indian Creek then a couple of must-do longer routes (Fine Jade, The Rectory / Castleton Tower, North Face / Moses, Primrose Dihedrals / Sister Superior, Jah Man) then on to have a crack at Moonlight Buttress.

3) Am I kidding myself that I'll have a chance at Moonlight Buttress considering only a week's preparation at crack climbing?! I probably know the answer already 

4) Any general advice / suggestions / input to help out with trip planning?

Cheers UKB

[rosmat]

1.) April should be good climbing temps in both Indian Creek & Zion. Spring generally has more wind and rain than the autumn. Expect possible cold nights in both areas.

Zion: Worth knowing that many of the walls are bird banned from March-September for peregrines.

2.) You can do this in 2 weeks if you arrive fit - however the combination of the climbing style and being in the desert is hard on your body, so you will probably need / want more rest days than if you were clipping bolts in Europe.

3.) Unless you intend to aid it then probably "yes" - but it depends how strong / talented you are. 6 of the pitches are sustained hard crack climbing, and 5 of those are 5.12 or above. Crux is pitch is 7c.

4.) Tons of info on Super Topo about all these areas.

[duncan]

1. Indian Creek and the towers have a similar climate. April rather than March. Spring break college holidays (Mid-March) should be avoided.

2. Two weeks is fine for Indian Creek and the towers. Zion as well might be stretching it a bit.

3. How much crack climbing have you done elsewhere?

4. Mountain Project is more Colorado/Utah focused than Supertopo and has more guidebook material and less fascinating reminiscence/crazed ranting.

[ali k]

3. How much crack climbing have you done elsewhere?

I've done Peapod. I was hoping to try London Wall before I go to get into things...

Seriously though very little. I just reaaaaaaally want to do it. And starting to realise that I can't put trips/routes like these off forever

[rosmat]

London Wall is around 7a+.

The hard pitches on Moonlight are 7a, 7c, 7a+, 7b, 7a+ back to back.

Nice video here:

[ali k]

The hard pitches on Moonlight are 7a, 7c, 7a+, 7b, 7a+ back to back.

Nice video here:

Yeh saw that...and is one of the reasons I want to do it so badly. Rarely seen a climb that draws me to it so much. Not sure how much time out of the trip would be taken up with the logistics of doing it the way these guys did (i.e. working it then walking round and abbing down to stash stuff etc). Seems like a logical way to minimise faff on the actual ascent though.

[jwi]

Build a crack machine and train like a fiend all winter. Concentrate on fingers, rattly fingers and ringlocks. (Set it vertical or slightly off-vertical and learn the pinky-toe up rand jam. No good feet! You will probably need to add a couple of bad jibs for feet because peg-boarding rattly fingers is fierce.)

Go to Indian Creek and flash or climb a few of these routes second go:
Mad Dog & Johnny Cat at Cat Wall Buttress
Way Rambo & Slice and Dice at Way Rambo Buttress
Double Bock at The Optimator Buttress
Power Line at Power Wall Buttress
Hydraulic Pump at 4x4 Buttress

Then you should be ready to a quickly send any long route with lots of finger cracks.

[jwi]

Forget to say: Any pitch with mainly laybacking you are likely to piss if you have the required sport climbing fitness

[ali k]

Cheers for all the info so far.

Zion: Worth knowing that many of the walls are bird banned from March-September for peregrines.

Can't find much info on which walls/routes this affects - TBH in such a short trip the only route that would interest me is M Buttress - is this included in the ban? The fact Jacob did it in April would suggest not, or does it vary year to year?

[JacobJacob]

Thanks for the kind comments about my video .

Moonlights never banned as far a I know.

I think if you wanted to minimise faff on Moonlight one option might be to fix from the rocker block (top of pitch 4) to the ground (you could do this with two 60s I think...?) On this day you could also go up and work some of the higher pitches. Then come back and try and go from the rocker block to the top in a day.

This is obviously slightly harder than the way we did it, but way less faffy.

One more thing I would say is don't be put off by how hard 5.12s feel in Indian Creek! There is no way that the pitches on Moonlight would get the same grade were they single pitch climbs in the Creek.

[JacobJacob]

Your time of year is basically perfect.

If you're really serious about having a good bash at Moonlight, I would sack off the Desert towers and do a week in the Creek and a week in Zion...

[ali k]

Awesome thanks for the replies Jacob. The other question is how crowded was Moonlight at that time of year? Is it a ballache to work pitches around other people and share belays/ledges etc?

[JacobJacob]

Basically yes it's a ball-ache.

Climbing is more popular in the states than in the UK and there's more people operating at the level required for Moonlight. The other factor is you often get total gumby aid climbers (Moonlight is a very easy aid climb) who move very slowly and run into problems.

That being said it's just a gamble, our first day on the wall we were 3rd out of 4 parties! The second day we had the cliff to ourselves. In my opinion it's worth it because the climbing is so good and mostly other parties are super friendly. Obviously weekdays are better than weekends on average.

Message me (now or nearer the time) if you want the full pitch by pitch and gear beta .

On a side note the drive from Indian Creek to Zion (if you go via some back roads) was one of the most spectacular sections of landscape I've ever seen! Truly amazing.

[SA Chris]

Driving in that part of the world is dangerous for not keeping eyes on the road, not gawping a scenery, crags, boulders.

[TobyD]

Other Indian Creek classics to lob yourself at, agreed with many of the previous suggestions but...

The incredible hand crack 5.10 (obvious but no worse for it)
The optimator 5.13
ruby's cafe 5.13
everything at cat wall...

[Paul B]

Your time of year is basically perfect.
If you're really serious about having a good bash at Moonlight, I would sack off the Desert towers and do a week in the Creek and a week in Zion...

I wouldn't sack of the towers for anything, they're some of the best climbing I've ever done, anywhere.

Fine Jade ranks very highly IMO. We went to the desert after spending a reasonable amount of time at Millstone lapping anything we could. I still took an absolute kicking on anything that had the dreaded "OW", regardless of the grades.

I think the creek would've been a better place to learn than Millstone, but it snowed and everybody left, taking their multiple friends with them!

[ali k]

I wouldn't sack of the towers for anything, they're some of the best climbing I've ever done, anywhere.

Fine Jade ranks very highly IMO.

Which other routes on the towers did you do? Any off my list higher up the page? (Can't remember where those recommendations came from - possibly your thread before you went!)

I seriously need more holiday...

[Paul B]

Fine Jade YES - Brilliant climbing after the first short offwidth pitch
The Rectory / Castleton Tower North Face NO - Kor/Ingalls instead
Moses, Primrose Dihedrals YES - Truly brilliant, walked in the long way due to vehicle choice
Sister Superior, Jah Man NO - this will be rectified

North Six Shooter - Lightening bolt cracks, not as good as the above. Can't help but feel I missed out on the Washer Woman, In Search of Suds.

It's worth noting that the above took much longer than I anticipated as conditions (wind / snow) put an end to trying to climb on certain days. Plus, things get very soft after rain. I think for me Primrose was the route of the trip; it was a bit epic getting there and we got it wrong one day [baking hot] but I had a crack climbing epihany around here:


Looking up at the Primrose Dihedrals by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

and loved that pitch. Oh, and ensure you have a PROPER 4wd (high clearance) to make getting to the Washerwoman and Primrose a doddle.

Make sure if you do go you camp in Canyonlands near Mesa Arch, you're about 2 minutes walk away from this:


The Green River Overlook by travelswithmyt4, on Flickr

We didn't manage to do much in Zion (boiling) but what we did do I really enjoyed. I'd love to go back and I'd happily aid the hell out of moonlight to be up there.

[ashtond6]

Hi Jacob - beta help if possible...

I am also thinking of training for this route, on the basic I can easily train ringlocks and rattly fingers at home

But the lieback pitch is the one the freaks me out & I found the below online. do you agree? As this seems straightforward for 12d/7c:

Jump off the ledge and make some face moves and a mantle (V2/V3?) past 3 bolts. The corner above is probably no harder than 5.11-. This pitch gets a 5.12 rating due to the first 10' but it would be a seriously soft tick for the grade. I'd call it 5.11- V3-