[User deactivated]

I think Fat lip is probably fair at 8B. It’s knacky and it costs you a lot of pairs of shoes, or at least the heels on them. Alex is right though, it doesn’t feel hard when you do it.

It does tell you how messed up UK grades are though.

Get Keen Roof done and you’re all set to try Bombadil, The Rail, The Boss and get that plus grade.

Fragile steps wise when did the new beta emerge?

[teestub]

As this is a slow Tuesday in the (home) office another similarly busy roadside crag for bouldering is the bowderstone surely, but flip flopera (3 ascents), sideshow (3 ascents) etc seem to not get many repeats. Pretty sure only 4 people have climbed 8b on the bowserstone (Varian, Aidan, JackPal, Hamish McArthur??? ). How does that compare to Parisellas or the Tor for roadside venues?

Although the bowderstone is close to the road I'd say it isn't particularly close for a lot of people i.e. it's not close to many big cities.

Agree with this, the stone is busy by lakes standards but nowhere near as busy as the Tor, where there’s always someone with their phone on a tripod filming themselves on Keen Roof. Hell Lettuce Training even did a keen roof specific training plan!

[Paul B]

From the outside it looks very odd that nobody wants to acknowledge the fact that Keen Roof isn't done as it was originally (I tried this with Keenus during his backpack/plate phase), yet in the same breath, a sequence which avoids the crux move (of a limestone boulder problem) is ripe for the downgrade.

...and if you think this is me sticking up for Pete because he lives less than a mile away, you don't understand our "relationship"  .

[Bradders]

...and if you think this is me sticking up for Pete because he lives less than a mile away, you don't understand our "relationship"  .

I think Pete should go and try it to give us a definitive answer; if he can do it, it's 8A+, if he can't it's 8B. Until he can do it, then it'll be back to 8A+

[36chambers]

JackPal, have you done Keen Roof? How does it compare with all the other 8B's you've been on?

[tomtom]

...and if you think this is me sticking up for Pete because he lives less than a mile away, you don't understand our "relationship"  .

I think Pete should go and try it to give us a definitive answer; if he can do it, it's 8A+, if he can't it's 8B. Until he can do it, then it'll be back to 8A+

:D superb.

[r-man]

Also, didn't Steve originally grade Fat Lip 8A+/B?  So it wouldn't even be a downgrade, just a continuation of the same uncertainty that Steve had.

[User deactivated]

JackPal, have you done Keen Roof? How does it compare with all the other 8B's you've been on?

Not done it. Only things I’ve done at the tor are bens and fat lip really.

I bet between us on here we could propose some good benchmark 8Bs though. But it would have to be ‘some’ I don’t think one is appropriate. Can’t compare a 2 move one to a 12 move one. 

[Will Hunt]

So basically, Keen Roof is 8A+ with new beta in the same way that Mecca is 8b with a kneepad but they each have to stay as 8B and 8b+ respectively because there are lots of people in Sheffield whose livelihoods or self-worth depend on them being able to tell their sponsors/mums that they've done an 8B/8b+?

[Bradders]

I bet between us on here we could propose some good benchmark 8Bs though. But it would have to be ‘some’ I don’t think one is appropriate. Can’t compare a 2 move one to a 12 move one.

Can we just have a list of the softies instead please? Asking for a friend.

[Sasquatch]

It's quite funny to me.  I've always felt that boulder grades tend to have an average distribution around the mean with .5 grade being the SD.  

So about 68% would fall within the normal grade range, 13.5% would be "soft", 13.5% "stiff", and the rest simply given the wrong grade. And that's all fine and well...  It'll never be perfect, so why worry about it and just let the wrong grades stay.   

[Ally Smith]

So basically, Keen Roof is 8A+ with new beta in the same way that Mecca is 8b with a kneepad but they each have to stay as 8B and 8b+ respectively because there are lots of people in Sheffield whose livelihoods or self-worth depend on them being able to tell their sponsors/mums that they've done an 8B/8b+?

 

I've heard 8A mentioned for Keen Roof for those in possession of knee skills, especially if combined with lank.

[abarro81]

So basically, Keen Roof is 8A+ with new beta in the same way that Mecca is 8b with a kneepad but they each have to stay as 8B and 8b+ respectively because there are lots of people in Sheffield whose livelihoods or self-worth depend on them being able to tell their sponsors/mums that they've done an 8B/8b+?

I take it you've compared Mecca with your extensive portfolio of 8b and 8b+ ascents to arrive at your conclusion on grades? Not that anyone knows the difference between hard 8b and easy 8b+ anyway, since they're basically the same thing.

[Nike Air]

Don’t worry Jordan, I think Isla de encanta is pretty benchmark..!!! Flashing that thing is just taking the piss. 

I'm not bothered what makes benchmark status I'm just interested what the boulderers come up with as it's good to know the mark in the sand.

In fact I remember Isla feeling fine ( tried it on the Thursday,  fell slapping the jug on the Saturday,  went back and did it pretty chilled on the Sunday).
In fact the boulder that made me give up hard bouldering during that run of form was little women and that might have been given 8A+ at the time. I just could not make sense of it and got sick of sliding down the slope on my pads and getting a wedgie...........

Other 8Bs since have taken me bloomin ages but I was definitely less of a boulderer by then.

[Will Hunt]

So basically, Keen Roof is 8A+ with new beta in the same way that Mecca is 8b with a kneepad but they each have to stay as 8B and 8b+ respectively because there are lots of people in Sheffield whose livelihoods or self-worth depend on them being able to tell their sponsors/mums that they've done an 8B/8b+?

I take it you've compared Mecca with your extensive portfolio of 8b and 8b+ ascents to arrive at your conclusion on grades? Not that anyone knows the difference between hard 8b and easy 8b+ anyway, since they're basically the same thing.

Not to mention my extensive knowledge of the Snore, a crag which (thanks be to God) I have not visited - an eighth circle of hell where vainglorious climbers are eternally tortured by vanlifers and Bluetooth speakers.


(Mecca comments are based on the knee pad thread from a couple of years ago).

[andy popp]

Even I liked the Tor.

[205Chris]

 

So basically, Keen Roof is 8A+ with new beta in the same way that Mecca is 8b with a kneepad but they each have to stay as 8B and 8b+ respectively because there are lots of people in Sheffield whose livelihoods or self-worth depend on them being able to tell their sponsors/mums that they've done an 8B/8b+?

The irony of this statement from someone who would upgrade Illywacker despite it being much easier with a pad........

[cheque]

Not to mention my extensive knowledge of the Snore, a crag which (thanks be to God) I have not visited - an eighth circle of hell where vainglorious climbers are eternally tortured by vanlifers and Bluetooth speakers.

This is like the climbing equivalent of those Fox News reports that describe British cities as Sharia “no-go areas”.

[Andy F]

So basically, Keen Roof is 8A+ with new beta in the same way that Mecca is 8b with a kneepad but they each have to stay as 8B and 8b+ respectively because there are lots of people in Sheffield whose livelihoods or self-worth depend on them being able to tell their sponsors/mums that they've done an 8B/8b+?

I take it you've compared Mecca with your extensive portfolio of 8b and 8b+ ascents to arrive at your conclusion on grades? Not that anyone knows the difference between hard 8b and easy 8b+ anyway, since they're basically the same thing.

Not to mention my extensive knowledge of the Snore, a crag which (thanks be to God) I have not visited - an eighth circle of hell where vainglorious climbers are eternally tortured by vanlifers and Bluetooth speakers.


(Mecca comments are based on the knee pad thread from a couple of years ago).

Spoken like someone who knows the Tor is too hard for them 

[RobK]

To add to the downgrade debate, Andy Jackson did Keen Roof today and said it felt 8A+ with 'tall beta'.

[Wood FT]

So basically, Keen Roof is 8A+ with new beta in the same way that Mecca is 8b with a kneepad but they each have to stay as 8B and 8b+ respectively because there are lots of people in Sheffield whose livelihoods or self-worth depend on them being able to tell their sponsors/mums that they've done an 8B/8b+?

I take it you've compared Mecca with your extensive portfolio of 8b and 8b+ ascents to arrive at your conclusion on grades? Not that anyone knows the difference between hard 8b and easy 8b+ anyway, since they're basically the same thing.

Not to mention my extensive knowledge of the Snore, a crag which (thanks be to God) I have not visited - an eighth circle of hell where vainglorious climbers are eternally tortured by vanlifers and Bluetooth speakers.


(Mecca comments are based on the knee pad thread from a couple of years ago).

Lovely autumn day, come over. I dare say you'd enjoy it 

[Bradders]

To add to the downgrade debate, Andy Jackson did Keen Roof today and said it felt 8A+ with 'tall beta'.

Came on here to mention this.

On paper Andy ought to be on the list already for Bulbhaul, but I think this is another one where there's a sequence based grade debate?

https://www.instagram.com/p/BT2THfJj-yl/?igshid=1arr58mvb66a

[spidermonkey09]

36C reckoned Bulbhaul was 8A/+ when he did it. I told him to take the tick, but he channelled his inner Will Hunt and went for the monumental downgrade. 

[Bradders]

Wasn't that more because he finds the move on The Keel harder than the Bulb finish though?

[teestub]

When Tom P did Bulbhaul originally it was with the old school Bulb sequence (going again from the bulb hold with your RH to the flatty out right) and I bet that was fucking nails after all the other climbing. With the new Bulb sequence it’s not much harder than The Keel, so I can’t imagine the adding ‘haul’ bumping it much more than half a grade above Keelhaul (from my comfortable well worn armchair).