[remus]

It's with sadness that I've downgraded Diluvian on the list https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_boulders.md

However I've added Pete as a special mention, as being bumped off the list by downgrades twice seems harsh.

[Nike Air]

What is the Benchmark 8B in the UK?

[andy_e]

The Ace, surely?

*shuffles around in his armchair*

[Will Hunt]

George Newham did Keen Roof recently. But is Keen Roof actually regarded as 8B? An awful lot of downvotes on UKC and an awful lot of punters getting up it...

[turnipturned]

Interestingly, I never actually gave Diluvian 8B (see my insta from 2014).

Good effort Jim Pope on a rope, What I did in 5 years you did in 5mins...... Ebikes, ladders and liquid chalk have ruined bouldering.

Anyway, I thought one of the harder links might be 8B+ (Or maybe I wanted it to be after spending so much time wasting my life on a shitty bit of limestone at the bottom of an amazing crag) but after various beta improvements maybe low to mid 8B. Who actually cares anyway?!

Don’t worry Jordan, I think Isla de encanta is pretty benchmark..!!! Flashing that thing is just taking the piss. 

[remus]

George Newham did Keen Roof recently. But is Keen Roof actually regarded as 8B? An awful lot of downvotes on UKC and an awful lot of punters getting up it...

Sweet, on the list he goes. https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_boulders.md

Let's not get in to the Fat Lip/Keen Roof debate. If they get downgraded it'll send shockwaves through the list (about 1/10 entries on the list are ascents of one of those problems)!

[yetix]

What's wrong with losing 1/10 of the list? Surely when people started taking 8A+/B for RoM a similar number went off the list?

[yetix]

Also Hamish McArthur needs adding to the list having done Sideshow on the Bowderstone. What a problem to join the list with!  3rd ascent after Varian and JackPal?

[Duma]

It's with sadness that I've downgraded Diluvian on the list https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_boulders.md

However I've added Pete as a special mention, as being bumped off the list by downgrades twice seems harsh.

Big grades for bad beta is obvs nonsense, but if Fragile Steps has changed, and was 8B at the time, then I think peewee should definitely still be on.

[highrepute]

Interestingly, I never actually gave Diluvian 8B (see my insta from 2014).

the post

[tomtom]

What is the Benchmark 8B in the UK?

The Sheriff :D

(ducks and runs away fast...)

[remus]

Big grades for bad beta is obvs nonsense, but if Fragile Steps has changed, and was 8B at the time, then I think peewee should definitely still be on.

Im not familiar with the grade change so will defer to others. What's the knowledge on fragile steps?

[remus]

Also Hamish McArthur needs adding to the list having done Sideshow on the Bowderstone. What a problem to join the list with!  3rd ascent after Varian and JackPal?

Good shout, he's in https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_boulders.md

[remus]

What's wrong with losing 1/10 of the list? Surely when people started taking 8A+/B for RoM a similar number went off the list?

Nothing really, I was just joking. Ropes of Maui going down to 8A+ meant 3 people off the list (whereas Keen Roof/Fat Lip would equate to 13 people off the list) https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/commit/638b88bc03d8c32aa89253a2859d2cce498687c9#diff-451f9583b02bbaa99fa5968c28410027

[Will Hunt]

The list is supposed to be elitist. If there's a load of chancers who have done a thing that was once given 8B but has settled to less than that then they should be zapped. At some point standards will progress to a point where 8B won't get you onto the list at all.

I honestly have no idea how hard Keen Roof is as it is at the Snor and I therefore don't know or care about it, but it has the hallmarks of something in need of a downgrade.

[Orrincoley]

I think there's something to be said about "easy access" climbs getting lots of repeats. Take Keen Roof and Fat Lip for example, its a 10 second walk in, there's always someone there with extra pads and you can work any move from the ground. These all add up to make them super "easy" to repeat and see lots more ascents than a lot of other hard climbs.

[remus]

[Keen roof/fat lip] has the hallmarks of something in need of a downgrade.

Might as well get it out the way...anyone else got an opinion on this?

My current thinking: they're popular because they're probably a little soft, but also because they're at one of the busiest hard crags in the UK and the beta has been dialed in as they get a lot of traffic. Does that mean they need downgrading? I suspect other problems on the list would get similarly dialed in if they got as much traffic. Does that mean Keen roof/fat lip need to go down, or just that they're well worked out?

ed: what Orrin said.

[SA Chris]

If there's a load of chancers who have done a thing that was once given 8B but has settled to less than that then they should be zapped.

Inconceivable that anyone would do a problem because it's got good climbing on it, or any if the other reasons described above. They are clearly all "chancers" and must have all done it just so they can make it onto remus's EliteList.

FWIW I've never been there either and for all I know it could be a load of log moves.

[Will Hunt]

Very fair points. I have no skin in the game, but I thought the grade vote profile on UKC was an alarm bell so thought I'd ask.

If there's a load of chancers who have done a thing that was once given 8B but has settled to less than that then they should be zapped.

Inconceivable that anyone would do a problem because it's got good climbing on it, or any if the other reasons described above. They are clearly all "chancers" and must have all done it just so they can make it onto remus's EliteList.

FWIW I've never been there either and for all I know it could be a load of log moves.

Chris, it's the fucking Tor. Of course it's shit. A convenient project but shit nonetheless.

[Doylo]

Interestingly, I never actually gave Diluvian 8B (see my insta from 2014).

the post

Turnip edited that last night 

[yetix]

The grade I have no idea on, its beyond me and almost certainly always will be. But anyhow keen roof has twice as many ascents (on ukc) as fat lip which suggests something about it is easier in some capacity than fat lip despite them being at the same crag. 

As this is a slow Tuesday in the (home) office another similarly busy roadside crag for bouldering is the bowderstone surely, but flip flopera (3 ascents), sideshow
(3 ascents) etc seem to not get many repeats. Pretty sure only 4 people have climbed 8b on the bowserstone (Varian, Aidan, JackPal, Hamish McArthur??? ). How does that compare to Parisellas or the Tor for roadside venues?

[turnipturned]

Does have something to do with Fat lip been done in 2007? And keen roof 2009?

There no videos or very little info of Bowderstone problem. I couldn’t  even tell you where flip opera starts.

Shut up doylo, I only edited the ones with slash grades 

[Ru]

But anyhow keen roof has twice as many ascents (on ukc) as fat lip which suggests something about it is easier in some capacity than fat lip despite them being at the same crag. 

It's because Fat Lip wasn't done for years until a new sequence was worked out. I don't think anyone uses Steve's method anymore (it may not even have been repeated using his method either).

[abarro81]

Keen: 8A+? 8B? Fuck knows. Bouldering grades have never and will never make sense. Belly is not 8B+ anyway, even if keen stays at 8B.

Fat: it's harder and easier than keen depending on how big a hook the anasazi you bought has on it and how many goes you get before it starts peeling. Very hard to grade as when it works it feels quite easy - so it's not hard per se, but it's  very easy to fall off again and again... If I had to vote I'd vote 8B for it but at the same time if you told me it was 8A I'd believe you.

Hope that clears up all the confusion nicely.

[remus]

As this is a slow Tuesday in the (home) office another similarly busy roadside crag for bouldering is the bowderstone surely, but flip flopera (3 ascents), sideshow (3 ascents) etc seem to not get many repeats. Pretty sure only 4 people have climbed 8b on the bowserstone (Varian, Aidan, JackPal, Hamish McArthur??? ). How does that compare to Parisellas or the Tor for roadside venues?

Although the bowderstone is close to the road I'd say it isn't particularly close for a lot of people i.e. it's not close to many big cities.