[remus]

Evolution however hasn’t got harder has it?

Ted's got the full knowledge, but I believe at least one of the crux holds is noticeably worse than back in the day.

[36chambers]

I always think of the waddage UK level as being 8c+ and 8B. To have done both is more impressive.

Unless the 8B was done at the Tor

As a group we’re relatively shit now.

Surely there are way more people climbing around and above 8c+ or 8B nowadays

[Kingy]

Evolution however hasn’t got harder has it?

Ted's got the full knowledge, but I believe at least one of the crux holds is noticeably worse than back in the day.

I understand the gaston for the LH on the last move crumbled in 2009 as there are old photos of Malc gastoning it and now it is a very poor hold that you can't use in that way any more (its only poss to use as a poor intermediate). Still this is only on the easier top wall (8b). The meat of the route, i.e the crux over the roof is unchanged.

2 more: Tom Newberry can be bumped up the list, he has climbed Spicy Noodle 8c+ in Yangsho, China

Jacob Cook climbed Revival 8c in Chek Canyon near Squamish earlier this year

[remus]

Bumped newberry and added cook https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_routes.md

[teestub]

As a group we’re relatively shit now.

Surely there are way more people climbing around and above 8c+ or 8B nowadays

In absolute terms there are certainly more people climbing those grades, but as a percentage of climbers overall? It would be hard to collect any meaningful data but my suspicion would be that the average boulder grade has improved, not so sure about the average sport grade.

[Teaboy]

I reckon that if anyone else had written that I'd assume they were taking the piss but that does strike me as the sort of thing you'd do!

Sorry Kingy, I've just realised my mistake, that should have said "that *doesn't* strike me as the sort of thing you'd do", no wonder you questioned it and hopefully clear from my later reply. 

[Kingy]

Sorry Kingy, I've just realised my mistake, that should have said "that *doesn't* strike me as the sort of thing you'd do", no wonder you questioned it and hopefully clear from my later reply.

No problemo! What a saga with Carn Vellan etc, I've kind of given up on the whole thing now, life's too short!

[spidermonkey09]

No problemo! What a saga with Carn Vellan etc, I've kind of given up on the whole thing now, life's too short!

This may not be the right thread for it, and I could probably search for it, but can anyone point me towards a precis of this saga that isn't myopic? I haven't a clue where to start! Thanks

[Will Hunt]

I agree with the sentiments above. 8c is a punter's grade. 8c+ is hot now.

I think this is probably why this ladies' thread was deemed patronising by some. 8a, whilst obviously a stellar personal achievement for many, is a bit Mickey Mouse if you're trying to create a list of the very best performers. 8b might be more appropriate? Or 8a+?

[duncan]

No problemo! What a saga with Carn Vellan etc, I've kind of given up on the whole thing now, life's too short!

This may not be the right thread for it, and I could probably search for it, but can anyone point me towards a precis of this saga that isn't myopic? I haven't a clue where to start! Thanks

CV saga reported here:
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,15682.0.html

Roland and Mark Edwards moved to Cornwall in the early 1980s and Edwards senior sets up a guiding / instruction business there. They set about developing the local cliffs with enthusiasm. Many classic new routes are created but there are also persistent accusations of lying and chipping. Some Edwards routes definitely had their holds enhanced but the Edwards have always denied it was them and the phantom chipper has never been identified. Some notable last great problems on granite are bolted, against the local ethics. Similar stories were still circulating decades later: https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2010/07/cornish_controversy_-_drilled_cam_slots-56420

All this is background information to the strength of feeling around the Edwards and bolting. It’s fair to say the Edwards were not flavour of the month amongst many other local climbers and this may well have impacted on the response to the bolting of Carn Vellan. Had the area been developed by, say, Ken Palmer, the bolts might well still be there. 

[cowboyhat]

I always think of the waddage UK level as being 8c+ and 8B. To have done both is more impressive.

Unless the 8B was, did you mean Hubble?

As a group we’re relatively shit now.

Surely there are way more people climbing around and above 8c+ or 8B nowadays

Yes of course it’s just something I like saying. Twenty five years ago a few guys really punched above their weight, but they had a narrower focus.

The crucial thing is development. In 1990 if you wanted to climb 8c+ and Font 8b you had... Hubble. A few years later Jerry does Evo which is a relative power endurance path. Within a couple of years everyone capable of working that grade but not a weird minging boulder problem had done it, because it was the only other route Of that difficulty. The only 8c at the Tor was Make it Funky, so the guys below them worked that route. No decisions. Similar story in Yorkshire and Wales, with even smaller groups. And the same strong few travelling to repeat what was there.

Stubbs makes a good point about the stats.

Whatever the answer Evolution is really fucking hard, and that’s that.

[cowboyhat]

Btw looking at the list; Robins has done loads of 8c+s, not just his own unrepeated route that is listed. The asterisk misrepresents his achievements.

Maybe a number or something to denote how prolific they are? Ted, Jim Pope have also done several 8c+s for example. Solid at the grade. Oh hang on, will bosi is the only person credited with two routes. And who’s this guy McClure ‘claiming’ a 9b?

[remus]

Btw looking at the list; Robins has done loads of 8c+s, not just his own unrepeated route that is listed. The asterisk misrepresents his achievements.

Maybe a number or something to denote how prolific they are? Ted, Jim Pope have also done several 8c+s for example. Solid at the grade. Oh hang on, will bosi is the only person credited with two routes. And who’s this guy McClure ‘claiming’ a 9b?

Fair point. I think adding a couple of routes to denotes people who are 'solid' at a grade is a decent shout.

Re steve Mac, I think the fa marker is pretty appropriate here. Not that I personally have any doubt about the grade, but it is the tradition that grades are based on concensus so a route with no concensus is more of an unknown than one with a lot of ascents.

[Doylo]

Robins climbed 8c+ and 8B every year from 2009-2014 before his motivation for redpointing started to wane and his Mrs started making him go to more dinner parties. Shame there’s not a nice convenient 9a for him to go at in Wales.

[remus]

Added multiple routes for a few people, more suggestions welcome. Also added a few notes https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_routes.md

[Doylo]

Pedantic but it’s Megalopa not Megaloupa.

[Kingy]

Good to add some clarity with a few notes/ additional routes etc Remus. I guess making the list comprehensive would be too big an undertaking. I'm personally not keen on the idea. I mean how many 8c's has McClure done? He says in his autobiography that he has lapped Mecca Extension 50 times! 

[spidermonkey09]

Robins climbed 8c+ and 8B every year from 2009-2014 before his motivation for redpointing started to wane and his Mrs started making him go to more dinner parties. Shame there’s not a nice convenient 9a for him to go at in Wales.

As a non-resident of North Wales I have been consistently in awe of Robins since I started climbing. One of the best all round climbers the UK has ever had probably. E9, 8c+ (x lots), and 8B? Good effort.

[Doylo]

Robins climbed 8c+ and 8B every year from 2009-2014 before his motivation for redpointing started to wane and his Mrs started making him go to more dinner parties. Shame there’s not a nice convenient 9a for him to go at in Wales.

As a non-resident of North Wales I have been consistently in awe of Robins since I started climbing. One of the best all round climbers the UK has ever had probably. E9, 8c+ (x lots), and 8B? Good effort.

And he has a proper job.   

[Muenchener]

Re steve Mac, I think the fa marker is pretty appropriate here. Not that I personally have any doubt about the grade, but it is the tradition that grades are based on concensus so a route with no concensus is more of an unknown than one with a lot of ascents.

True in general, but in this case I think "not pathed by Adam Ondra" is a reasonably strong piece of evidence.

[Doylo]

And 125 days Vs 40 days for a hard 9a+. Not really in doubt is it.

[spidermonkey09]

Robins climbed 8c+ and 8B every year from 2009-2014 before his motivation for redpointing started to wane and his Mrs started making him go to more dinner parties. Shame there’s not a nice convenient 9a for him to go at in Wales.

As a non-resident of North Wales I have been consistently in awe of Robins since I started climbing. One of the best all round climbers the UK has ever had probably. E9, 8c+ (x lots), and 8B? Good effort.

And he has a proper job.   

Bollocks, no excuse. Better get down the wall.

[geoffg]

Bumped into James Ibbertson yesterday. Apparently Josh (14) has done 8c+ and Jack (12) has done 8b+ during their euro trip of the last year. Amazing...
No idea what routes they were

[remus]

Pedantic but it’s Megalopa not Megaloupa.

It's pedantry that's required! Also added Josh Ibbertson, any details about the route would be mega if anyone is in the know? https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_routes.md

Good to add some clarity with a few notes/ additional routes etc Remus. I guess making the list comprehensive would be too big an undertaking. I'm personally not keen on the idea. I mean how many 8c's has McClure done? He says in his autobiography that he has lapped Mecca Extension 50 times! 

Yeah, comprehensive in names rather than ascents is enough of a goal I reckon!

[Doylo]

Bumped into James Ibbertson yesterday. Apparently Josh (14) has done 8c+ and Jack (12) has done 8b+ during their euro trip of the last year. Amazing...
No idea what routes they were

!!!!! Christ