[SA Chris]

This thread does not resonate with me personally, because it makes me realise what a shit punter I am.

[remus]

This thread does not resonate with me personally, because it makes me realise what a shit punter I am.

Tell me about it! 8c just to get in to the top ~100 in british climbing. The future is bleak.

p.s. added Char  https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_routes.md

[Will Hunt]

Speaking of extensions at the Tor - Char Williams - Mecca Extension 2015

Good blog from the time about The Process and The Journey http://themightychickpea.blogspot.com/2016/01/highlights-of-2015-part-iii.html

It's not hard to see how climbing mags have gone down the pan when there is such incredible writing on offer for free.
Is that Blog in the UKB blog pile?

[rosmat]

Max Milne - Dracula True Finish
Ally Coull - Magnum Opus

[remus]

Max Milne - Dracula True Finish
Ally Coull - Magnum Opus

Thanks, updated https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_routes.md

[Steve Crowe]

Al Wilson, Cry Freedom

[remus]

Al Wilson, Cry Freedom

Should be on there already.

[petejh]

This thread does not resonate with me personally, because it makes me realise what a shit punter I am.

Thought you were going to say because you find the thread patronising..

[Steve Crowe]

Sorry!

[CraigMac]

Ken Palmer?

[tomtom]

This thread does not resonate with me personally, because it makes me realise what a shit punter I am.

Thought you were going to say because you find the thread patronising..

No #mansplaining issues with this thread :D

[Kingy]

Rich heap
Robin barker
John Welford
All make it funky.

Does Welford’s The Bastard not get 8c+ now?

Yes, according to the latest Peak Lime guide it is 8c+. So Welford can be bumped up the list.

Of course, Ken Palmer should be in for the FA of Brian 8c+

I have an obscure one here. Mark Edwards did a number of hard sport routes at Carn Vellan in the early 90's, most of which have now been debolted. Monster Munch 8b+ is still bolted and I understand has been repeated this summer. Another of Mark's lines is 'Nuts are not the only Fruit 8b+' from 1991, possibly now debolted? Mark was in touch with 8a.nu earlier this year: https://www.8a.nu/forum/editorial/8b+-in-1991-possibly-8c+-9a-2018

He was of the opinion that Nuts would warrant 8c+/9a in today's money, citing grade inflation as the reason. Even if this is wrong, it seems likely that this may have been one of the earlier 8c's in the world. I reckon 'Nuts are not the only Fruit 8b+' should go in at 8c with a double cross symbol to show that its unrepeated and there is a hefty question mark over the grade. What do people reckon. I am fairly certainly this looks harder than Bat Route judging by this video, looks nails!



What a shame the future for sport climbing is uncertain at this stunning crag.

[Doylo]

Speaking of extensions at the Tor - Char Williams - Mecca Extension 2015

Good blog from the time about The Process and The Journey http://themightychickpea.blogspot.com/2016/01/highlights-of-2015-part-iii.html

It's not hard to see how climbing mags have gone down the pan when there is such incredible writing on offer for free.
Is that Blog in the UKB blog pile?

Forgot how good that is. Nice to read again.

[cheque]

Will Kelsall did Bat Route in 2015.

[remus]

Added Mark's ascent (along with associated question marks) and the other less controversial ascents. https://github.com/bourbonspecial/UKStrongPeople/blob/master/men_routes.md

[Kingy]

Nice one. Just re-read the 8a.nu piece and Mark says he has done some 8c's in Sella (don't know which ones) which he found easier than Nuts. Dunno whether the easier but confirmed Sella 8c's should be mentioned...

[Teaboy]

Another of Mark's lines is 'Nuts are not the only Fruit 8b+' from 1991, possibly now debolted? Mark was in touch with 8a.nu earlier this year: https://www.8a.nu/forum/editorial/8b+-in-1991-possibly-8c+-9a-2018

He was of the opinion that Nuts would warrant 8c+/9a in today's money, citing grade inflation as the reason. Even if this is wrong, it seems likely that this may have been one of the earlier 8c's in the world. I reckon 'Nuts are not the only Fruit 8b+' should go in at 8c with a double cross symbol to show that its unrepeated and there is a hefty question mark over the grade. What do people reckon.

I reckon that if anyone else had written that I'd assume they were taking the piss but that does strike me as the sort of thing you'd do! Obviously I've no idea but the fact he chalks up or clips from every hold makes me question that.

You're correct about it being a shame this crag is not still bolted, someone should judtget on and do it.

[Kingy]

but that does strike me as the sort of thing you'd do!

Don't you mean 'he'd do?' Just to clarify

[Ru]

He was of the opinion that Nuts would warrant 8c+/9a in today's money, citing grade inflation as the reason. Even if this is wrong, it seems likely that this may have been one of the earlier 8c's in the world. I reckon 'Nuts are not the only Fruit 8b+' should go in at 8c with a double cross symbol to show that its unrepeated and there is a hefty question mark over the grade. What do people reckon. I am fairly certainly this looks harder than Bat Route judging by this video, looks nails!

Here is a quote from Mark from a 2008 thread on the UKClimbing.com forum in which he describes Nuts Are Not the Only Fruit as being 8b, not 8b+, or 8c+/9a. He certainly seems to have had a hard time deciding how hard it is. If it really is 8c+/9a that would make Rewind the hardest trad route in the world at about E13.

" M. Edwards on 03 Dec 2008
In reply to broc:
> (In reply to M. Edwards) Hi Mark, I've just read the article on Javu.co.uk about the bolts at Carn Vellan. Interesting stuff. For those of us who don't know, does Rewind follow one of the older bolted routes as mentioned in the article or is it a different line?

Hi broc, Rewind follows the old "Nuts are not the only fruit" an old 8b direct start to "Blue Sky Lightning" 8a/b. But the two sports routes had a different crux... the crucial hold was missing after the bolt-choppers left the crag. I am not saying they did it, but it was missing. It was a tiny flake within a one finger pocket that you could get a full body length leverage off to reach the mono side pull. Now you have to finger jam and dyno for the mono. If it was bolted it would get harder sports grade than the original. Mark"

Link:https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/rocktalk/e10_aspirations-331442

[Teaboy]

@kingy - No, I can well believe that ME thinks it should be upgraded, I was surprised at anyone going along with it but I know you to be much too polite to take the piss so I assume you're not! That said if the wall is *really* steep

[Kingy]

Interesting post Ru. He can't seem to make up his mind.

Maybe I'm naive but I tend to err on the side of believing what a climber says in general, unless they have been obviously and unequivocably discredited. Which i don't believe is the case with Mark Edwards.

Neil Gresham has supported Mark on Instagram on Franco Cookson's repeat of Academia E10, which he confirmed the grade of. Neil's quote about Mark was:

Well done Franco and what I think about Mark is that he is one of the great characters who got off his arse and did some inspirational routes and that hardly any of the pioneers from that era were whiter than white.

[Teaboy]

I'm not hating on the geeze and, obviously, many of his routes are class and hard but I'm just not sure how you can make a judgement like that 15 years later. 8c+ in 1991 was a very big number (second in the uk after Hubble). But in fairness I know nothing so I could be totally wrong (I'd love to be wrong, the folklore of 90's climbing   would be my specialist subject on Mastermind!)

[Kingy]

Haha, yes that judgement does seem a bit of a stretch. I think what Mark is driving at is that grade inflation has made Nuts equivalent to today's endurance routes graded 8c+/9a, not Hubble, which is essentially an extremely hard boulder route graded 9a in the current Peak Lime Guide. Whether he is correct in this assertion we are not likely to ever know sadly.

Unfortunately, less than clear cut cases like this are out there and I guess its the list maker's job to either include or not include. I am not familar with Sella 8c's. I guess, Nuts aside, whether Mark gets onto the list would depend on whether you believe his assertion in the 8a article that he has done them or not. I suppose we at least need the name of a route for a climber to be included on the list?

Not knowing Mark, I am not in a position to contact him to ask him which 8c's in Sella he did. Does anybody know him on here? I tend to take a climber's word for it, rightly or wrongly, unless they are a Richard Simpson...

[Doylo]

I always think of the waddage UK level as being 8c+ and 8B. To have done both is more impressive. Think there’s about 25. And 9a and 8B+ is the cream of the crop (5/6?).

[cowboyhat]

I always think of the waddage UK level as being 8c+ and 8B. To have done both is more impressive. Think there’s about 25. And 9a and 8B+ is the cream of the crop (5/6?).

Totally agree.


Stu I’ve never heard that about MIF. It’s always bothered me that the few times I’ve been on there it seems so bloody hard and it’s not just me; very few ascents nowadays compared to the seemingly loads the route had in the past. Evolution however hasn’t got harder has it?. Fact is loads of guys were crushing in the 90s long before Tom Randall invented training. As a group we’re relatively shit now.

Not you Stu, obviously.